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-   -   Is Cement Board REALLY necessary when Tiling? (http://www.houserepairtalk.com/f13/cement-board-really-necessary-when-tiling-1646/)

jwhdfw 12-04-2006 10:50 AM

Is Cement Board REALLY necessary when Tiling?
 
I own a 1940's pier and beam house and am trying to tile in one bathroom and the kitchen. My brother's decorator and tile guy say, "All gotta go and put cement board back in". Is this REALLY necessary or is this just 2000's America goverened by lawyers and accountants talking??? Did cement board even exist in the 40's and 50's??? Didnt these old houses have tile "successfully" back then also? Okay - so a grout line cracks 5 years from now - Is repairing that when it happens cheaper than me basically dismantling my entire house now????

CraigFL 12-04-2006 12:09 PM

I would be afraid you would be unhappy with grout cracking if you didn't at least have cement board in. Maybe a small area of tile over several good layers of plywood on a truss system would be alright too. Before cement board, a good tile job was over a morter bed of an inch thik or more-- just like a mini slab. Obviously, people have done cheap tile jobs over the years by using mastic directly to plywood.

glennjanie 12-04-2006 04:19 PM

Hello JWHDFW:
MY house was built in 1956 and has the mortar backing for the ceramic tile which has held up fantasticlly. No, they didn't have cement board back then. During the 70's we put ceramic on plywood on the floor and MR board on the walls (green, moisture resistant Gypsum board). So, unless it violates someone's code, it is no problem to just glue the stuff on and grout it. I still see it done that way in public restrooms and other aplications.
Glenn

TileGuy 12-04-2006 04:46 PM

,,,
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jwhdfw (Post 6863)
I own a 1940's pier and beam house and am trying to tile in one bathroom and the kitchen. My brother's decorator and tile guy say, "All gotta go and put cement board back in". Is this REALLY necessary or is this just 2000's America goverened by lawyers and accountants talking??? Did cement board even exist in the 40's and 50's??? Didnt these old houses have tile "successfully" back then also? Okay - so a grout line cracks 5 years from now - Is repairing that when it happens cheaper than me basically dismantling my entire house now????


You would be lucky if only the grout lines cracked. The only other way to lay tile is on a slab or pour the floor. Cement board is the "2000's" solution for not having to go through the nightmare of mudding the walls and floors.
I do this for a living and would NEVER, EVER tile a bathroom or anything else on wood. The extra 12 bucks a board and half day of labor wont kill anyone.

Lawyers and accountants dont care if your house falls apart because you did it wrong, its all on you. Just dont expect to have someone that knows what theyre doing to agree with doing it wrong. Thats like asking a welder to use crazy glue because you saw a guy hang from an I Beam on TV.


Glenn... If you have seen someone use mastic or thinset directly on wood, in any decade....you have seen someone do it 100% wrong. I shiver at the idea.

jwhdfw 12-04-2006 08:13 PM

Interesting, interesting posts. Ive got one guy who says no biggy and that his has held up great, Ive got another tile professional echoing what my brother's tile guy says.

On one hand I tend to maybe see tileguy's point. The walls in the bathroom I want to tile are this strange concrete over tight chicken wire mesh looking construction and that truly does look like a nightmare to recreate....

....But then I go under the house to install a new receptacle for the dryer in the pantry, I will swear that I drilled through 6 inches of cedar 2x6's before I hit daylight and I think to myself, "How the heck is ANYTHING going to move with this much subfloor?"

More thoughts anyone??

TxBuilder 12-04-2006 09:32 PM

Yes it's neccesary unless you use wire/mud. Don't trust anyone who tells you otherwise. Run from them.

TileGuy 12-05-2006 06:05 AM

...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jwhdfw (Post 6871)
....But then I go under the house to install a new receptacle for the dryer in the pantry, I will swear that I drilled through 6 inches of cedar 2x6's before I hit daylight and I think to myself, "How the heck is ANYTHING going to move with this much subfloor?"

They move and create deflection, it doesnt take alot. Id suggest having who ever does this job to screw the board to the floor rather then nailing it down.


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