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Old 05-02-2009, 09:53 PM  
Nestor_Kelebay
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To agree to disagree would be the polite and respectful thing to do if there was any doubt in the matter. But, your thirty five years of experience counts for nothing if you're going to spread misinformation to the people in here who don't know who to believe. There's too many people on these Q&A forum web sites doing that already.

So, let me just prove that you are wrong in a way that should be conclusive to them and that they can understand completely.

1. Google the character string "ceramic tile" with the quotation marks. You should get 5,530,000 hits.

2. Now, use the "search within results" link at the bottom of Google's web page to find all those "ceramic tile" hits that also have the character string "effect of humidity" in them. Include the quotation marks to find occurances of that phrase.

3. Google will now report 176 hits, of which you will find only 30 links to unique web pages. (I presume the other hits are mirror sites with those same web pages on them.)

4. Now, use the "Find" feature on your web brouser to find the spot on each page where the word "humidity" is mentioned, and you'll find that every one will be talking about the "effect of humidity" on something other than ceramic tiles. They will talk about "the effect of humidity" on wood flooring, on aluminum moldings, on the drying time of thin set, on Hardibacker board, on everything but ceramic tile. There isn't a single web page on the entire internet that says anything about humidity affecting ceramic tile.

Humidity has no effect on ceramic tile. If it did, there would be plenty on the internet about it; what causes it, what tiles swell the least and most, how to predict it, how to prevent it, what problems it causes and how to deal with them, etc. You won't find any discussion anywhere regarding humidity affecting ceramic tile. If any one can think of a logical explanation for that, I'd like to hear it.



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Old 05-02-2009, 10:44 PM  
Jim McClain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nestor_Kelebay View Post
Let's do it this way, Jim. I'll just prove you are wrong.
You go right ahead. I came to share in the community spirit and offer whatever I can as a professional, not engage in childish competition.

Jim
PS: You should figure out what you wanna say before you post. My quote above is from your original message (I only quoted the first paragraph). You changed it considerably, but you said the same thing.


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Old 05-02-2009, 11:35 PM  
Nestor_Kelebay
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I changed it because I saw that it was disrespectful. I did that on my own, even though at the time I felt I could prove my point.

Nor do I want to engage in "childish competition". You're saying something I've never heard before, and I didn't believe it, until now. Now I believe SOME man made tiles can warp.

I'm staying up late to research this, and I'm finding that there are cases of engineered marble and concrete tiles warping because of their being exposed to moisture on one side during installation.

This page:
http://www.infotile.com.au/services/techpapers/DS7.pdf

says that warping is a problem limited to engineered marble tiles. It says: " By contrast, true marbles and granites are usually dimensionally stable."

That page also said that the thicker the tile, the more unlikely it was to warp.

Another page I came across when I Googled "ceramic tiles" and "dimensional stability" was this one from the Tile Institue of America:

Ceramic Tile Intstitute of America - Field Report 24

which says about concrete tiles:

"To a lessor degree, cured concrete can also expand and contract when the moisture content increases and decreases. The re-introduction of moisture to just one side of a cured tile during the installation, may also potentially affect it's dimensional stability. This could result in a possible bonding separation of the tile from either the substrate, mortar and/or grout. Even though this movement is the exception rather than the rule, it is prudent to recognized the dynamics of such a phenomenon, whether minor or major, and take steps to minimize any potential for losing bond."

The problem is that all of these web pages are talking about this as something that "can" happen, but normally doesn't. Also, so far I haven't found one that talks about swelling or shrinking in ordinary ceramic tiles, only engineered marble and concrete tiles. In fact, I've found the opposite.

For example, this page on making ceramic tiles:
How ceramic tile is made - Background, Raw materials, The manufacturing process of ceramic tile, Byproducts, Quality control
says:
"The final product must meet certain specifications regarding physical and chemical properties. These properties are determined by standard tests established by the American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM). Properties measured include mechanical strength, abrasion resistance, chemical resistance, water absorption, dimensional stability, frost resistance, and linear coefficient of thermal expansion."

That's telling me that ceramic tiles typically are dimensionally stable, and that also suggests that the warping or swelling or any other movement is the exception rather than the rule.

It's late, I'm tired and I'm going to sleep. I'm going to do some more reading tomorrow.

I now accept that some kinds of ceramic materials do warp and swell. But, from what I'm seeing, this is something that happens occasionally, and then only with, so far, only certain kinds of tiles.

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Old 05-03-2009, 01:20 AM  
Jim McClain
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Nestor, I'm sure there are some people who have time to read your lengthy posts, but I quit reading them a long time ago. I scan them occasionally and I see that you are arguing points I never made. I said nothing at all about tile warping and swelling. I said "expands and contracts with temperature and humidity." Google that why don't you. I recommend against installing cabinets on top of ceramic tile. You are making a huge deal out of this... for what?

WAIT! Don't answer that. I don't care. Let it go. Move on to the next issue. Is this why there are so few participating professionals here? Don't answer that question either. For cripes sake.

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