DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Flooring > What is this?




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-18-2010, 01:30 PM  
Nestor_Kelebay
Emperor Penguin
 
Nestor_Kelebay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 1,844
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Bud:

1X6 dimensional lumber will twist and warp as it dries IF IT IS FREE TO MOVE.

In this case those boards were clamped in place by three (typically) nails per board to every joist. That held them in place as they dried, and prevented them from warping and twisting. Take a look at the picture. If those boards were warped, then you'd see gaps between the boards and the underlayment above. From what I can see, there are no such gaps and those board appear to be laying pretty darn flat to me.

I have exactly the same kind of fir plank subfloor throughout my building, and my own experience is that the boards dry flat. Replacing those planks with plywood would be a waste of money.


Mary:
Just go to any carpet store and show your picture to the Installations Manager. He will confirm that your plank subfloor will not present any problems for the installation of any flooring you choose to install over it. He will also confirm that plywood underlayment would be better than the particle board underlayment you have now, but he may feel that it's not worth the cost to replace the underlayment. My own feeling is that now that the carpet is out, this would be the time to do that work.
My own building was built in 1960 and I have 5/16 inch thick fir plywood underlayment over a 3/4 inch thick fir 1X6 plank subfloor. That's lasted 50 years so far with no indication that it won't last another 50.



__________________

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 04-18-2010 at 01:45 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-18-2010, 02:16 PM  
scarymary
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21
Default

These boards are nailed to sleepers secured to a concrete slab. I'm sure that was the reason for them being underneath the particle board. All I need is something to lay over top of those boards, and it may appear that the wood is cupping from that picture, but after removing the particle board yesterday, the floor seems to be pretty level in my opinion.



__________________
scarymary is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-18-2010, 02:21 PM  
scarymary
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21
Default

Nestor, the baseboard has already been removed. This is a complete gutting of our living room.

http://www.houserepairtalk.com/f39/hi-tennessee-9043/#post43585

__________________
scarymary is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-18-2010, 02:23 PM  
Bud Cline
Tile Contractor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 284
Default

Quote:
Take a look at the picture. If those boards were warped, then you'd see gaps between the boards and the underlayment above.
BALONEY!

Those boards will move with environmental change of every season. They always have and they always will, that's the nature of the animal. Under carpet its no big deal. Under a hardwood floor, it's no big deal. Under a laminate floor, it can be a big deal.

If you look closely at the picture you can see the rough edge of the torn particleboard and the crumbled remnants of the fibers piles up.

Look even closer and you will note that (from left to right) board number 1 is crowned, board number 2 is cupped. Boards 3, 4, and 5 are all crowned.

It will never stop. Just because they aren't reaching up and slapping you in the face doesn't mean they aren't moving and aren't distorted. It happens everywhere. Millions of homes are built with a similar (diagonal) method and the issues exist in each and every one of those millions of homes.

Now is the time to correct the problem for good by getting rid of those unstable slabs of firewood and replacing them with suitable structurally sound plywood that will take the moisture that is rising from under those boards and will be even more trapped when laminate goes down. The ability for the moisture to dissipate will be greatly diminished now that the carpet has been removed.

Trust me Kelebay. This is one (more) time you don't know what you are talking about.
__________________

[SIZE="1"][B][COLOR="Blue"][CENTER]Some days I aspire to becoming a missing person.[/CENTER][/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]

Bud Cline is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-18-2010, 06:49 PM  
Nestor_Kelebay
Emperor Penguin
 
Nestor_Kelebay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 1,844
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Mary:

As for Bud Cline's comments, speak to the Installations Manager at any of the flooring stores in your area. If there are, or ever were problems installing plastic laminate flooring over underlayment over a lumber subfloor, then the Installations Manager would know about it and would advise you accordingly.

The way I look at it, your 2X4 sleepers under those 1X6 planks are also lumber and will swell and shrink slightly with changes in humidity too. And plastic laminate flooring has seams in it that could easily accomodate the tiny amount of movement of the wood we're talking about. And, on top of all that, wood is a soft material that's easily compressed, and will therefore accomodate a lot of movement on it's own.

So I simply don't share Bud Cline's views about the need to replace the subfloor. If it were my house, I would replace the particle board underlayment with either a fir plywood underlayment or 6 mm Baltic Birch plywood. But I would keep the 1X6 lumber subfloor unless and until someone who's knowledge I trusted told me otherwise. That's why I say to consult with the Installations Manager on this point.

__________________

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 04-18-2010 at 06:53 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-18-2010, 07:04 PM  
scarymary
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21
Default

This is what I know..........I know that it is not recommended by the flooring manufacturer to install laminate flooring over a sleeper constructed subfloor due to not having 18" of ventilation space. However, they will tell you that you can install laminate or hardwood flooring over concrete, so what is the difference, I ask.

__________________
scarymary is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-18-2010, 07:08 PM  
scarymary
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21
Default

Bud, I will take another picture of the floor from a different angle for you and post it in my remodel album here at the site; perhaps that will give you a better look.

__________________
scarymary is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-18-2010, 07:41 PM  
Nestor_Kelebay
Emperor Penguin
 
Nestor_Kelebay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 1,844
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Mary:

Maybe take a picture with something you know is straight laying across the boards to prove they're flat and level.

__________________

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 04-18-2010 at 07:45 PM.
Nestor_Kelebay is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-02-2010, 08:54 PM  
scarymary
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21
Default

OK, we bought some 19/32" plywood to put down over the planks that are on top of sleepers, and I have a question.............the plywood isn't precisely uniform. Where the seams meet, there is some unevenness. How should we address this?

__________________
scarymary is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-03-2010, 10:00 PM  
scarymary
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21
Default

Here is the dilemma...........if I were going to tear out all those existing planks, then I am left with nothing but sleepers on top of concrete. The room is already framed and had flooring on it previously. Any deviation from what was there previously will create an elevation change, and that is what I'm trying to avoid. I can't make any adjustments to the doorways in the room easily. That is the only reason I am trying to stay within the confines of what was there previously. I have no reason to doubt your experience or knowledge regarding this.



__________________
scarymary is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On