DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Bricks, Masonry and Concrete > Cratering in our Driveway Different from Every other Driveway in Development!




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Old 08-08-2014, 10:47 AM  
BridgeMan
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The photos indicate the concrete is experiencing scaling, not spalling. The former is usually limited to the surface, while spalling goes much deeper and eventually results in complete deterioration. The OP's scaling looks to be the result of too much chert in the mix, an aggregate which absorbs water and then fractures when freezing conditions occur.



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Old 08-08-2014, 12:08 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajvas1 View Post
......(One thought: Our driveway seems to be at the focal point of a VERY gradual sloping to our left and right. When we had large snow melts, a small lake would collect at the foot of our driveway. Could this salty solution being tracked onto our driveway over and over really be the cause? I mean there is ZERO spalding/damage on neighbors houses in either direction.)
The OP mentions that puddles form here. Any possibility that the concrete got a good soaking before it had a chance to fully cure? That may be enough of an argument for the HOA to concede on. (although I would take Bridgeman's word otherwise)


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Old 08-10-2014, 02:38 AM  
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there's no ' spalling ' in this video whatsoever as bdge says,,, actual true spalling is damage caused by 2 adjoining conc pieces rubbing together & chipping small/large pieces off ( either from traffic loads OR temp changes ),,, what IS illustrated in the video is extreme loss of cementitious paste,,, that's the stuff that holds aggregate in place which makes conc hard among a few other things like low water:cement ratio, proper placementl, & curing practices,,, will agree proper prep is critical to any repr

'course i'm only a jr member & dumb contractor who's done this work professionally for 35yrs so what do i know,,, i've met sullivan, too,,, several times,,, reminds me of the guy on this old house & the other guy who fronts for rebuilding houses - photogenic

perhaps the op's d/w suffered some damage from rain which would've weakened the surface,,, wtr running downhill will often erode conc, too,,, consider a polymer modified o'lay for best results altho, no matter what or who says it, its rarely done well by diy'ers,,, know that's not what many want to hear but, generally, if 1 wants pro results, they must use pro materials, methods, & equipment,,, then again, most diy'ers don't have the experience/knowledge to separate what they hear - some is fact while other stuff is bs - knowing which is which is critical to success,,, its rare that shopping at any apron/vest store will contribute much to successful conc repairs impo unless 1 includes safety glasses & cases of wtr

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Old 08-11-2014, 02:25 PM  
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turns out that "spalling" (or spall) is a generic term and is not specific to concrete. So I'm not surprised that there is a difference in definitions here. this is from Wikipedia:
Spall are flakes of a material that are broken off a larger solid body and can be produced by a variety of mechanisms, including as a result of projectile impact, corrosion, weathering, cavitation, or excessive rolling pressure (as in a ball bearing). Spalling and spallation both describe the process of surface failure in which spall is shed.

A google search will also come up with different reasons and cures for concrete spalling. Even pros can disagree based on what they call things.

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Old 08-12-2014, 04:24 AM  
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it does apply to other materials - eg, granite & marble - yet we rarely hear anyone say their countertop is spalled or there's a spall on the living room wall's plaster,,, sometimes conc spalls as the result of d-cracking,,, oftentimes language separates us as in trying to define what my bride' nagzilla, means when she says some things

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Old 08-12-2014, 12:47 PM  
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notwithstanding the product sullivan's using, better materials contain dry hybrid-polymers, silicon carbide aggregate, white cement to which is added just water - no primer necessary,,, according to the video, the mtl he's touting isn't recommended for exterior use because it doesn't have any fine aggregate,,, micro is generally used indoor for decorative work,,, having done this work professionally, i can't imagine any pro picking a wire brush & grinder,,, as bdge posted, there's no indication of any spalling however it does appear to exhibit extensive scaling.

i wouldn't choose rapidSet mortar for repairs,,, using a wire disk in an angle grinder MIGHT be fine for small spots,,, otherwise pickling the driveway followed by an ammonia neutralization is the usual method,,, i suspect any pro would do the same who's work is cementitious overlays.,,, to my knowledge, none of the rqd materials ( gloves & safety glasses excepted ) are avail @ the apron/vest stores but only from specialty supply houses.

typically these materials work best @ 1/8" thickness or slightly less,,, for this particular section, we would've used a broom to apply the 1st coat, a squeegee for the 2nd ( he's using a magic trowel - drywall trade - which also has applications for polymer-mod'd conc's

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Old 08-12-2014, 02:32 PM  
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Having made a living in structural evaluation, and inspecting many thousands of deteriorated concrete surfaces, starting in 1967, I've relied on the definition of scaling provided by the Federal Highway Administration's Bridge Inspector's Training Manual:

Scaling: The gradual deterioration of a concrete surface, due to the failure of the cement paste, caused by chemical attack or freeze/thaw cycles.

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Old 08-12-2014, 05:19 PM  
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Default Put this to rest...

http://www.cement.org/docs/default-source/fc_concrete_technology/durability/is177-concrete-slab-surface-defects-causes-prevention-repair.pdf?sfvrsn=4

Scaling:
is the loss of surface mortar exposed to the freeze/thaw cycle. The aggregate is usually clearly exposed and often stands out from the concrete. Scaling is primarily a physical action caused by pressure from water freezing within the concrete.
Spalling:
is a deeper surface defect than scaling, often appearing as circular or oval depressions on the surface or as elongated cavities along joints. Spalls are caused by pressure or expansion within the concrete, bond failure when new and old concrete meet, impact load, fire, or weathering. Improperly installed joints or corroded reinforcing wire can cause spalling.
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Old 08-13-2014, 02:36 PM  
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Default Not Quite Put To Rest

Your link essentially described scaling as I did. And the OP's pix clearly show good examples of scaling. Not spalling.

But it still needs to be determined: Is she skinny, thin, or svelte?

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Old 08-14-2014, 04:05 AM  
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most reasonable people have a good understanding of how fed &/or most government agencies perform assigned duties & fulfill their responsibilities - they build empires, expand budgets, have meetings, conduct studies ( often of subjects previously studied ad nauseum ), & obfuscate,,, the personnel often have failing memories & rarely lose their jobs,,, somehow records become ' lost ', or simultaneous hard drives crash inexplicably,,, MORE RARE is the government lout who gets sentenced to prison tho richly deserved but, instead, is allowed to retire or transfer

imo, by now, most have more faith in the private sector where there are more responsibilities AND proportionate consequences,,, but perhaps i degress



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