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-   -   Filling in a void with concrete (http://www.houserepairtalk.com/f17/filling-void-concrete-10224/)

head-first 10-27-2010 10:41 PM

Filling in a void with concrete
 
This summer I rearranged all of the brick around the front landscaping. There were two adjacent corners, and with my new design, I just loped the corners off and made a 45-degree angle across instead. In doing so, I now have a void that needs to be filled in.

In the first pic, I am looking at the front of it.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ornerfront.jpg

In the second pic, I am facing at the side of it.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...cornerside.jpg

What I would like to do is get this filled in soon. I was thinking of having someone do it, but it seems like something I could do myself. I am borrowing a B&D masonry book from the library, but still have questions:

Would I only need to use a board to separate between the brick wall and the void, meaning is it OK to allow the newly poured concrete to make direct contact with the older concrete?

The driveway is flat, but that sidewalk section has a grade to it, about 10 degrees. Is there a trick to filling in concrete at a grade? It seems like it would be thick enough to keep it's shape without drooping due to gravity, but I really have no idea.

Is there a good method to match a concrete mix with the preexisting concrete of my driveway?

Is it a good idea to add pebbles and sand to the ground first (to prevent erosion)?

So far I am looking at using this:
QUIKRETEŽ - Crack-Resistant Concrete Mix
Any good?


Thanks in advance for all input.

itsreallyconc 10-30-2010 06:55 AM

looks like water will collect there if the slope of the sidewalk's any indication,,, couple bags of conc mix from the apron store & you'll be fine,,, expansion jnt would be a plus for the patch perimeter & score a joint across the shortest dimension to control the cracking.

head-first 10-30-2010 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsreallyconc (Post 50449)
looks like water will collect there if the slope of the sidewalk's any indication,,, couple bags of conc mix from the apron store & you'll be fine,,, expansion jnt would be a plus for the patch perimeter & score a joint across the shortest dimension to control the cracking.

Well, the idea is to get the water to follow the same path as does with what is already there around it. I added a new picture to show what I am talking about/thinking of doing...

The Yellow line represents the border of area that will be contiguous with the driveway and level. The red line represents the border of the area that extends from the walkway that has a grade to it. I am thinking the red area will be at the same grade as the walkway... leaving a joint in between the two grades as suggested.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ersideplan.jpg

So this expansive joint filler, I should incorporate that in between the block landscape wall and also in between the joint mentioned above? Or would I need joints around the entire perimeter, like in between the driveway and the new area?

head-first 11-01-2010 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by head-first (Post 50457)
Well, the idea is to get the water to follow the same path as does with what is already there around it. I added a new picture to show what I am talking about/thinking of doing...

The Yellow line represents the border of area that will be contiguous with the driveway and level. The red line represents the border of the area that extends from the walkway that has a grade to it. I am thinking the red area will be at the same grade as the walkway... leaving a joint in between the two grades as suggested.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ersideplan.jpg

So this expansive joint filler, I should incorporate that in between the block landscape wall and also in between the joint mentioned above? Or would I need joints around the entire perimeter, like in between the driveway and the new area?

I moved some stuff around in my photo bucket account and saw that some pics disappeared from this thread. For some reason I cannot edit the thread starting post, but I could this post... this post has all the questions I need answered anyhow.

If anyone can answer these questions quickly I'd appreciate it as I want to complete this project ASAP. Thanks.

itsreallyconc 11-02-2010 07:42 AM

any apron store has isolation jnt mtl but, if it were mine, i'd use ' sill seal ' along the wall & the rest of the conc,,, after the conc's cured, pull the sill seal, insert backer rod, & seal w/joint sealant per directions on the tube

AlwaysOneMoreProject 11-06-2010 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by head-first (Post 50369)
Would I only need to use a board to separate between the brick wall and the void, meaning is it OK to allow the newly poured concrete to make direct contact with the older concrete?

It's a small job so I wouldn't use expansion joint between the new and old. I would definitely edge those joints but I wouldn't space them.

Quote:

The driveway is flat, but that sidewalk section has a grade to it, about 10 degrees. Is there a trick to filling in concrete at a grade?
Mix it normal and it'll hold. If you use too much water, you're (drum roll, please) sunk.

I would do the sections separately so that you can use the current slabs as screed guides without spearing anything. The job will be easier to tackle, too.

Quote:

Is there a good method to match a concrete mix with the preexisting concrete of my driveway?
The amount of money and time you'll invest in making that happen is immense. Then, once you get it right, the difference in slab ages cause them to look different in a year anyway. Your stuff will probably spall in a year because you're either going to over-work it or not keep it wet while it sets. We all do it with these little repairs.

Aesthetically, I would recommend that you cut the concrete so that instead of having that corner jutting into the void, that line echoes the line of the retaining wall. If you're committed to that area being part of a walkway, pebble finish (float the concrete then sprinkle pebbles then trowel them into the surface) with a gravel that matches your retaining wall. Otherwise, this improvement will always detract from your home's appearance.


Quote:

Is it a good idea to add pebbles and sand to the ground first (to prevent erosion)?
If you were just laying a little slab, I'd say it's overkill. However, since water is going to be flowing under from that wall, I would do gravel.


Quote:

So far I am looking at using this:
QUIKRETEŽ - Crack-Resistant Concrete Mix
Any good?
I don't know. My guess is that it has a little fiberglass in it to do what horse hair did for plaster. It's probably not a bad idea. The acute angles are going to be your weak spots and a little help wouldn't hurt.

On the other hand, if you do the pebble finish or something else creative, you might turn a burdensome project into something fun. I would enjoy it. If that's the case, why not hand mix?

itsreallyconc 11-06-2010 01:05 PM

there's no such thing as crack-prroof concrete UNLESS its printed on the bags & put where homeowners can see them,,, anyone can print anything on bags but that doesn't make it fool-proof,,, IF anything is, we'll figger out a way to make better fools !

gravel = crushed stone ( preferably # 57 ) NOT bank run gravel OR graded aggregate base course.

mudmixer 11-06-2010 01:40 PM

I would put the joint in the odd shaped are from the point protruding into the void area and run it so it is perpendicular to the little wall. This is where a crack would naturally occur. Other locations could lead to additional cracks even with a joint.

Fiber mesh is over-rated, but is does work for micro-cracking. The downside is the problems with under-mixing or over-mixing. - Not good for a DIYer to mix.

Dick

AlwaysOneMoreProject 11-06-2010 01:45 PM

I read your other thread, too. Something to consider, if you work for a living, is having a "professional" do the job.

There are many small timers out there that would love the chance to get their foot in the door with you. Pick a one- or two-man outfit that's just started. If they look right, show up on-time and bid the right price, you might have found yourself a contact that will be good for all your concrete work for decades to come.

Obviously, this is advice that is far from your request, but if you work for a living, having such contacts frees you from this stuff to become a better employee.

Finally, crushed stone. That's smarter.

mudmixer 11-06-2010 03:23 PM

Crushed stone in a water pathway is certainly pretty and "green" by some standards, but the stone allows the water to be adsorbed and possibly saturating the underlying soil.

The suggestion of a control joint was to give direction of the OP continued along with the original theme of filling the "void" with concrete.

Obviously this is a DIY project because of the size and only an idiot would use a contractor if he had the ability to either drag around bags of rock and place the barrier under them or mix a couple of bags and maintain the theme and not create foundation problems.

If the OP cannot do it, then he is welcome for find a small one man operation to do what he instructs them to do.


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