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-   -   foundation crumbling (http://www.houserepairtalk.com/f17/foundation-crumbling-9605/)

head-first 07-20-2010 09:39 AM

foundation crumbling
 
Hello all, this is my first post.

I have an issue... the block foundation/basement wall around my house is starting to crumble here and there and leaving craters on the external surface. For reference, the home was built in the early/mid 50's and these craters were there when I bought it last September... I imagine that they have been there for awhile. Here is a pic:

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ioncraters.jpg

I would like to know a long-term solution for filling in these craters. I want to repaint the wall once they are filled. The wall already does have paint on it and I am not sure if I need to remove the existing paint first or not.

I am new to the home repair game, and everything I have researched about the issue so far has left me unsatisfied and I still cannot decide what plan of action to take. And help/advice is appreciated.

head-first 07-21-2010 03:40 PM

I've been searching, but still haven't found a similar thread here. Somebody out there has to have had this issue before.

oldognewtrick 07-21-2010 04:10 PM

Usually when you see things like that it is from moisture getting in there and causing, spa-ling. Remove the moisture, remove the problem, fix the problem. You have to fix the moisture problem before you fix the result of moisture problems.

Post a pic of the area above this spot.

head-first 07-21-2010 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldog/newtrick (Post 46820)
Usually when you see things like that it is from moisture getting in there and causing, spa-ling. Remove the moisture, remove the problem, fix the problem. You have to fix the moisture problem before you fix the result of moisture problems.

Post a pic of the area above this spot.

The area above all the crumbling spots is just vinyl siding, nothing too peculiar (you can see the bottom of the siding in the pic). The crumbling spots are sporadic with no pattern in relation to any other structures (e.g. windows, etc.).

The wall is the barrier between me and the elements outside, so obviously I cannot eliminate it's exposure to moisture completely. :confused:

Preventing moisture in my mind (and I am not a professional contractor of any kind) seems more related to how it is sealed after being repaired. So in that vein, I actually have a two-parter question that I need answered: what it is the best method to repair it AND what will prevent this from reoccurring?

And I will look up spalling. ;)

head-first 07-21-2010 05:09 PM

OK, so I found this:

http://www.houserepairtalk.com/f17/sealer-exterior-house-7727/#post35543

As it turns out, sealing out the moisture is a bad idea. I live in N.E. Ohio where it freezes and thaws here a lot in the winter. Plus, the temperature will change 30 degrees within 12 hours many times throughout the year. Condensation is going to happen and I don't want to trap it in there.

The moisture cannot be removed beyond getting better gutters although rain will still hit those walls no matter what I do, so I have to go on towards repairing the spalling, then painting with an exterior masonry paint.

So now... what is the best material for filling in a spalling crater? And do I need to strip off all of the preexisting paint, or are there any brands that can go right on over the old paint?

itsreallyconc 08-04-2010 05:20 AM

its MUCH easier keeping moisture OUT of a wall than treating the results of its infiltration,,, your spalls aren't spalls on my monitor but, IF they really are, patch properly w/hydraulic or apron store mortar,,, removing the failing coating's more labor intensive - bosch bulldog chipping gun & 1 1/2" chisel bit & bushing tool.

IF sealing OUT moisture is a bad idea, why do you have a roof ? ? ? ' paint ' is NEVER a solution - you need the proper coating ! call any const supply store for the elastomeric masonary product.

head-first 08-17-2010 02:39 PM

The gal at the local Sherwin-Williams told me that I can paint over the pre-existing paint with a latex masonry primer so long as it is latex as well. I did the rubbing alcohol wipe test and it is indeed latex. I still scraped off any loose paint and sanded it down quite a bit with a steel brush. So I am now at the filling stage. She mentioned filling the spalling craters with epoxy... the only problem is, none of the hardware stores in my town carry such a thing. I was looking for PC-Masonry Epoxy specifically. It sounds like it will outlast anything.

So this elastomeric paint, it sounds like it does what the SW masonry primer/sealer does, like filling in the cracks and such. Is it close enough to the aforementioned Valspar product? She said the SW masonry primer and paint would last about 12 years.

head-first 08-17-2010 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by head-first (Post 47665)
The gal at the local Sherwin-Williams told me that I can paint over the pre-existing paint with a latex masonry primer so long as it is latex as well. I did the rubbing alcohol wipe test and it is indeed latex. I still scraped off any loose paint and sanded it down quite a bit with a steel brush. So I am now at the filling stage. She mentioned filling the spalling craters with epoxy... the only problem is, none of the hardware stores in my town carry such a thing. I was looking for PC-Masonry Epoxy specifically. It sounds like it will outlast anything.

So this elastomeric paint, it sounds like it does what the SW masonry primer/sealer does, like filling in the cracks and such. Is it close enough to the aforementioned Valspar product? She said the SW masonry primer and paint would last about 12 years.

I also meant to ask... the Valspar paint is it's own primer, thus not needing a primer before application?

mudmixer 08-17-2010 04:35 PM

You don't go to paint store to solve a concrete problem.

The wall wall is spalling. You seem to be hiding your location, but I assume you are in a colder climate (China, russia, Canada or northern U.S.).

There is an excess of moisture in the walls that cannot escape when it freezes. Even if it is a "breathing" paint too thick a coat or too many coats will reduce the vapor permeability.

Wire and stucco the wall and that will create a gap and thermal break that prevents further deterioration.

Dick

head-first 08-17-2010 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudmixer (Post 47680)
You don't go to paint store to solve a concrete problem.

Surprisingly, it is hard to get a straight-forward answer that is universally accepted. I've done my research only to find that there is too much varying advice about the matter and the only reason I bothered creating a post about it... but even within this very thread I am getting conflicting advice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudmixer (Post 47680)
The wall wall is spalling. You seem to be hiding your location, but I assume you are in a colder climate (China, russia, Canada or northern U.S.).

Um...

Quote:

Originally Posted by head-first (Post 46822)
I live in N.E. Ohio where it freezes and thaws here a lot in the winter. Plus, the temperature will change 30 degrees within 12 hours many times throughout the year. Condensation is going to happen and I don't want to trap it in there.

I quoted myself from this thread. No need to assume.


Quote:

Originally Posted by head-first (Post 46822)
There is an excess of moisture in the walls that cannot escape when it freezes. Even if it is a "breathing" paint too thick a coat or too many coats will reduce the vapor permeability.

Wire and stucco the wall and that will create a gap and thermal break that prevents further deterioration.

This is the first time I've seen your suggested solution. I will check it out... but I've already ordered the epoxy for filling the spalling and intend on using it.

Thanks for your $0.02, Dick.

One more thing... the amount of wall I need to paint only spans about 30" in height from the soil level to the bottom of the siding. Can't moisture simply escape through the unpainted portion below the dirt level or through the top of the wall where it meets the floor of the house?


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