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dw8 10-23-2011 03:10 PM

Floor Joist Framing
1 Attachment(s)
I'm dealing with a small master bath off a bedroom. The floor joist in the bath are
as shown in the attached picture. Each floor joist is a 3(w)x9(h)x20(l) which rest on the main beam (dotted lines in picture). The left most beam 2(w) x 10(h) is attached to a block wall. The full round circle on the left between the two beams is the current toilet location (4 inch ABS soil pipe). The half circle is a 3 inch ABS shower drain where the original plumber notched the beam -- hence the half circle. Per picture, to accommodate the original toilet soil pipe, one beam was cut and blocked such that the two adjacent beams now bear the load (weight).

The desire is to redo the shower such that the shower is moved over the toilet area and the toilet is moved over the shower area. I believe I can find a shower pan where the hole in the pan will go between the beams.

My problem is the toilet, in that the soil pipe will be directly located on the notched beam, such that the notched beam will now need to be cut and blocked. This would then cause the floor joints to have two blocked beams next to each other. There is "no way" the original block floor joist can be replaced.

My concern is the beams being over loaded (to much weight). Any comments and solutions appreciated.


nealtw 10-23-2011 03:48 PM

I don't no what is called and can't find it on the net but the plumbers here often use a toilet flange that has a 45 degree angle and they only shave the top of the floor joist to get it work.

isola96 10-23-2011 04:22 PM

Offset flange is what u need and posting a picture for better description would also help us.
Make shore your flange is sitting above your subfloor as well.

Sister in your joists were your tub is going and any were else you feel it to be safe for extra support.

dw8 10-23-2011 09:03 PM

Thanks for input guys but an offset flange will Not work because of space requirements. Beam needs to be cut and blocked. The issue (question) is what impact will this have on the adjacent beams as you add additional weight -- floor, possible tile floor, possible tile or e.g. "corian" shower base

nealtw 10-23-2011 11:29 PM

If your joists are 3x9, they are like double 2x10s, but 20 ft long is a little much and I don't have a good answer.

isola96 10-24-2011 11:02 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Can you provide picture of the joists
This photo is similar to what you need to do for support?.....

Attachment 3131

dw8 10-24-2011 08:06 PM


Thanks for the picture.

Found a hole in the plenum crawl area which will allow me to insert a beam from the outside
"close to" the same size as the current floor joints.

If that won't work, most likely I will have to create a new pier for the joist to rest on as I don't think two headers will be allowed side by side. My current thoughts are that I could "remove" the current toilet headers and put in a new joist. I could then header off the old notched joist so the toilet would fit there.

Going down and making an attempt to meet with our city engineer tomorrow to discuss the problem. Will post results meeting here, if any.

BridgeMan 10-25-2011 01:22 AM

Where I come from, it's called "creative framing to correct plumber's butcher job." I've done it on 3 homes that I can recall, maybe more. One was a brand new place, with a fresh occupancy permit. I think the inspector did a "drive-by" on that one (slowed to 20 mph while doing the plumbing rough-in inspection, from behind the wheel--tight schedule, you know).

dw8 10-25-2011 03:05 PM

Meet with city engineer. Had a program called StruCalc where he determined floor loads.
Based on joist indicated I was at 50% and could put in the headers side by side.
Since I found the wall opening where I can insert another joist, I think I'm going to put in the new header and then a (2 x 9) nominal trim joist -- a little smaller in size -- just to be on the safe side. Would prefer engineered joist, but doubt if I can get just "one". May even have trouble finding a "quality" trim joist of length I need.

nealtw 10-25-2011 05:51 PM

Sounds great. Good luck with the rest of the job.

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