DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Framing and Foundation > Will a palm nailer fit? Mini or fullsize?




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Old 08-20-2011, 09:23 PM  
redwood1922
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Default Will a palm nailer fit? Mini or fullsize?

Can a palm nailer loaded with a 1 1/2 inch nail, plus a person's palm, fit in a 5 1/2 inch space between bottom of floorboard and top of a girder below? What about a 3 inch nail? Prefer fullsize palm nailer as contractor more likely to have one, but mini OK if that's what it takes. The 5 1/2 inches is the depth of nearby floor joist (actual measurement of old "2x6" rough cut joist is around 2 1/4 by 5 1/2).

I'm drawing up instructions for contractor to install seismic strengthening of my 1922 house.



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Old 08-21-2011, 10:07 PM  
nealtw
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Most of us have givin up on palm nailers. What is it you are going to have him do?



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Old 08-22-2011, 12:08 AM  
redwood1922
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Default why a palm nailer would be a big help...

> What is it you're going to have him do?

This is a seismic upgrade. Attached pic from a Simpson "Seismic Retrofit Guide" shows a framing angle that is supposedly hammered in with only the clearance of a floor joist. There are also several other places in the crawlspace where nailing above a girder would let us use fewer or cheaper or stronger connectors.

I went to tool store today, looked at fullsize palm nailer, inserted a 1 1/2 inch nail, and it's 6 inches from back of nailer to tip of nail. My joists are only 5 1/2 inches, dang it. So I wonder if a mini-palm-nailer might work.

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Old 08-22-2011, 07:18 AM  
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Have them fill the bay out flush with the lower wall and they can install strap ties from the blocking to the studs below. If you have siding off on the outside I would just us strap ties there. Your best bet is to tie the studs below to the studs above.

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Old 08-22-2011, 01:59 PM  
redwood1922
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> Have them fill the bay out flush with the lower wall and they can install strap ties
> from the blocking to the studs below.

Thanks, nealtw, the blocking suggestion sounds hopeful and there might be some way to make the blocking not pop out in an earthquake. But I don't have a detail for that. I suspect that's the reason the Simpson detail is the way it is, not simply to make life difficult.

FWIW I have no studs below. House is too low to the ground. Simpson detail still seems to apply, for example securing rim joist to plate or sill below.

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Old 08-22-2011, 03:51 PM  
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You block every other bay with full size 2x6 and toe nail 4 nails each side and 4 nails each side to the rim joist and there will be nothing moving. Strap ties come as short as 8". Are you doing anything to the wall above to make it a stress wall?

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Old 08-22-2011, 07:33 PM  
redwood1922
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That sounds like a great idea. I should suggest that to a guy who's advised me a little, who's on the seismic standards committee for my state. Seems so obvious now that you mention it. Pic above seems to say that Simpson didn't think of it either.

Am I doing anything to make the wall above a stress wall, you ask. Funny thing about that. I'm supposed to do that, yes. It's just that I can show you 3 standard plan sets for seismic upgrades and there are lots of great details for the understory but almost none for above the floor. Same goes for the Simpson seismic retrofit guide book. Stiffening interior walls in living area seems straightforward, no? But upper crawlspace with gable roof and poor clearance just inside eaves...I really don't know how that's going to play out.


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You block every other bay with full size 2x6 and toe nail 4 nails each side and 4 nails each side to the rim joist and there will be nothing moving. Strap ties come as short as 8". Are you doing anything to the wall above to make it a stress wall?
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:33 PM  
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All I know is what the engineers here are having us do, whichs changes with every engineer and every house. After my last post I was thinking, not enough nails into sill plate, maybe a flat tee would be better but what will you have then. We have had to dig in thru the outside of the sheeting and rim joist and drill down into concrete and bolt down this huge simpson thing that extends about 3 ft where you nail or drive about 60 screws sideways into a double stud. They will call for 2 on a reg. wall. and 2 on each side of the garage door and large window. They only call for a few walls in a house, it is not there to save the house, it's about getting you out alive.
As we go up thru the house we have bolted from under the top plate of the basement wall to the bottom plate of the wall above it, we have allso put 4' straps on the outside to join the lower and upper wall 100 or so nails.
The stress wall here is alway the same so far anyway one side of the wall is sheeted with 1/2 plywood and all joins have solid blocking 3" nails , every 3" around the outside of the sheet and every 6 inches in the field.

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Old 08-22-2011, 09:58 PM  
redwood1922
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I don't see that "get you out alive" connector on any California or Hawaii standard plan set.

For a shear wall every 3 inches is a heck of a lot of nails. Is that full coverage of every exterior wall?

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The stress wall here is alway the same so far anyway one side of the wall is sheeted with 1/2 plywood and all joins have solid blocking 3" nails , every 3" around the outside of the sheet and every 6 inches in the field.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:53 PM  
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Just the stress walls. Stick frame houses survive a quake because it can sway and move.
The big roller is the fear now, like we have never seen. Living thru it is the trick, they used to tell us it was safe if you stood in a doorway, when was the last time you herd that.



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