DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Plumbing Forum > Basement Sewer pump vibration




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-13-2010, 07:41 AM  
Wuzzat?
Senior Member
 
Wuzzat?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,300
Liked 165 Times on 152 Posts
Likes Given: 90

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kok328 View Post
Install a rubber flapper check valve no more than 2ft. from the pump on a vertical portion of the discharge pipes.
Which leads to several quotes from the Web.

From the sources below it seems like the OP has 'chatter'. The weight & speed of the falling water causes turbulence.

Below, 'D' seems to refer to pipe diameter.

All check valves should be installed at least ten pipe diameters away from upstream pumps, elbows, fittings or equipment.

Many check valve manufacturers have in their literature a requirement for 5-6D between pump discharge and check valve. In fact Velan recommend 10D.
The reason is that there can be turbulence from the pump that increases the wear of a check valve and lead to its failure.

If there are any fittings, control valves, orifices, etc., close to the check valve they will cause turbulence. This may result in "chatter" and premature failure of the check valve. Our standards require straight runs of 5D upstream and 2D downstream of the check valve. Although you have not mentioned the type of check valve being used, 8D sounds very conservative. A 1D distance is too close for any type of check valve in continuous service.

The preferred installation of a ball check is in the vertical position. This will insure that
gravity will seat the ball properly each time. However, if the ball check valve is to be used in a
horizontal installation, it is important that the static head is at least 20 feet of water (nine pounds per
square inch). Recommended flow velocity range is 3-5 feet/second (if a higher flow velocity is
required, please consult the factory). Ball check valves with a floating ball should be installed in a
vertical orientation only and have a minimum of 10 feet of static head to seal correctly. Do NOT
subject ball check valves to freezing conditions.


__________________
Wuzzat? is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-13-2010, 11:19 AM  
Redwood
Certified Lunatic
 
Redwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Olde Tyme, Connecticut
Posts: 887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuzzat? View Post
Those Fernco couplers are pretty stiff.

I had something in mind more like the coupler on page 14 of
http://www.thevmcgroup.com/PDFs/vmcspec.pdf

"Series "VMS" and "VMT"
Quiet-Sphere Flexible Connectors
Single-sphere (VMS) and twin-sphere (VMT) connectors are
molded of neoprene and synthetic fiber and furnished with
corrosion resistant floating steel flanges. Operating temper-
ature to 240°F and operating pressure to 214 psi.
Compensates for expansion, compression, transverse
movement, and angular deflection. Reduces vibration and
noise transmission. Size 1-1⁄4" to 20" I.D. "

if somebody makes a residential version of this coupler.

The graph on page 2 of the link shows the dependence on frequency.
Okay what would I know...
I'm just a plumber that has done more installations in the last 35 years than I could ever add up...

Use the Fernco put the "Silent" or, "Quiet" Check Valve vertical a short distance above the pit and put a valve above the check valve so it can be serviced easily at a later date. Support the pipes adequately above the pit and your installation will be quiet.

It's just the way it is...
The Fernco couplings provide the vibration isolating needed from the pump and the silent check valve and proper pipe supports will take care of the rest...

We don't need to have a NASA consultation here...

For the valve and check valve I usually install the A.Y.McDonald # 2066S 2



http://aymcdonald.com/products_categories.cfm?prodline=Plumbing&groupID= 73&catID=13

With a Fernco below it for pump vibration isolation.


__________________

Last edited by Redwood; 02-13-2010 at 01:36 PM.
Redwood is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-13-2010, 12:52 PM  
Wuzzat?
Senior Member
 
Wuzzat?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,300
Liked 165 Times on 152 Posts
Likes Given: 90

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
We don't need to have a NASA consultation here...
Bingo!
I was at Goddard SFC from '74 to '81.
Didn't do check valves, though. . .
We did
Sounding rocket - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BTW, based on the rules above I think my sump pump check valve which is still working is installed incorrectly.
__________________

Last edited by Wuzzat?; 02-13-2010 at 01:10 PM.
Wuzzat? is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-13-2010, 01:43 PM  
Redwood
Certified Lunatic
 
Redwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Olde Tyme, Connecticut
Posts: 887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuzzat? View Post
Bingo!
I was at Goddard SFC from '74 to '81.
Didn't do check valves, though.
LOL
That must have been some neat stuff to work on...

I imagine the vibrations and their resonant frequencies are a little more severe in that application along with their consequences.
__________________
Redwood is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-13-2010, 02:34 PM  
Wuzzat?
Senior Member
 
Wuzzat?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,300
Liked 165 Times on 152 Posts
Likes Given: 90

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
LOL
That must have been some neat stuff to work on...

I imagine the vibrations and their resonant frequencies are a little more severe in that application along with their consequences.
Well, we didn't blow up stuff like
wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguard_(rocket)

We worked on telemetry, when we weren't fixing peoples' radios, depth finders, RC toys, etc.. We actually had a tube tester in the lab [our sounding rockets did not use vacuum tubes].

One of our experiments flew on
wikipedia.org/wiki/Getaway_Special

Looking back, it was fun. It wasn't at the time.
"I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then"
__________________

Last edited by Wuzzat?; 02-13-2010 at 02:44 PM.
Wuzzat? is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-14-2010, 10:15 AM  
Rten
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5
Default

Thanks to all for the replys to my plumbing vibrations problem. I will use your advice and install the silent type rubber check valve in the vertical pipe just above the sump. Sounds like this should solve the problem.

Cheers
Rten

__________________
Rten is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-15-2010, 07:38 PM  
Rten
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5
Default

Well I finally installed a Magic plastic silent check valve in the vetical pipe just above the sewer sump. I also drilled a small 1/8 inch hole angled down in the discharge pipe approximately 2 inches above the top of the pump in the sump. (prevents possible cavatation). This installation reduced the vibration by 90 % or so which I can live with. I get a very slight vibration that lasts a second or so just as the pump shuts off. I suppose I could futher reduce the slight vibration by installing a rubber coupling between the pump and the check valve. Thanks again for the advice.

Rten

__________________
Rten is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-15-2010, 08:00 PM  
Redwood
Certified Lunatic
 
Redwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Olde Tyme, Connecticut
Posts: 887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rten View Post
Well I finally installed a Magic plastic silent check valve in the vetical pipe just above the sewer sump. I also drilled a small 1/8 inch hole angled down in the discharge pipe approximately 2 inches above the top of the pump in the sump. (prevents possible cavatation). This installation reduced the vibration by 90 % or so which I can live with. I get a very slight vibration that lasts a second or so just as the pump shuts off. I suppose I could futher reduce the slight vibration by installing a rubber coupling between the pump and the check valve. Thanks again for the advice.

Rten
That would complete the noise reduction job...


__________________
Redwood is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter DIY Home Repair Forum Replies Last Post
Basement water leak due to a submersible sump pump failing in a water well stanigator Plumbing Forum 1 05-18-2009 05:27 PM
Sewer lines for new house vwitcher Plumbing Forum 0 11-19-2008 10:25 PM
Basement Sink Pump: tomtoolman12345 Plumbing Forum 1 05-08-2008 11:29 AM
Sewer Smell cibula11 Plumbing Forum 6 11-08-2007 06:33 PM
New Sewer Line Kerrylib Plumbing Forum 4 05-12-2007 09:27 PM