DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Roofing and Siding > metal valley..appropriate or risky on 3/12 pitch?




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Old 08-11-2009, 06:16 AM  
oldognewtrick
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If you go to gaf.com and click on the residential section, on the left side click on Installation Guide and Video. Scroll down to How To Do Valleys and watch the video. It shows how valleys are installed and what we call tipping a valley and why its important. If I knew how to just post a link to the video it would be a lot easier for y'all. The shingle Mfg have a lot of info designed to educate not only installers but homeowners. The better informed a consumer is, the better choice they can make in choosing a contractor to install their roof.

When I meet with a homeowner I'll spend as much time as they want to educate them on the installation of their new roof. Most people only but 1 maybe 2 roofs in their lifetime and we take the approach of being an educator rather than a salesperson. A roof that will last its maximum life expectancy is more than just a shingle but it's a system that has to work together.

Hope this helps.



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Old 08-11-2009, 06:18 AM  
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Default Ahhh shugar

I'm sorry, I forgot to mention the clips...
And when we do metal roofs ,we use 24 inch copper cut at 8 foot lengths, gasketed at the seam, basically a piece of thin tubed rubber.It works.
I have not had any issues "yet" with Grace ice and water human fly paper.
And Old dog is right on the money with his advice,it is the system of shingles and ventilation and deck that makes the roof last, maybe he could consult over the phone.



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Old 08-11-2009, 10:01 AM  
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oldog/newtrick et al...

Thanks for the commentary...for clarity on my part....hat's done is what's done re the valley....i am not trying to have that re-done. ...no way....what does interest me is getting a grip on the contractor's level of knowledge and how he handles customer requests/issues. BUT, I will go inspect how he did the shingles in the valley....and if he did it in a way to minimize debris damming. I'll take a picture if i can download it here.

I thought that I had a legitimate request...go w/ metal valley because there is significantly less debris damming.... and what I am asking the board....Do you think that it was legitimate to the point that there is reason to be extra cautious about how the contractor attempts to manage the customer in other areas of the job? And, was the contractor's rationale to insist not to the metal valley flawed...he climed that leaking was a high risk with a low pitch roof This is the main point.

Going forward, the contractor is suppose to finish some things that are in the contract and re-do some things due to poor workmanship and having a deaf hear to what I verbally requested. None of this involves work on the valley.


If the valley was to be done w/metal, I had three choices....aluminum (I considered too vulnerable to having a puncture from nearby tree fall out); galvanized metal that was described as "powder coated". .. I was told that it would outlast the shingles but that it is vulnerable to being "scratched"---i.e. rusting); or, copper....about 25% more expensive. Whatever the choice, GAF had a strong recommendation for a hightemp underlayment and I would have insisted the contractor call GAF in order to be on the same page....with the underlayment issue as well as the quality of galvanized metal...the foreman had never heard the term-"galvalume"......this was the same process that I took with my refusal to allow them to ice and water shield the entire roof....(another story that reflects my disappointment in the roofing division of a major local contractor).

Oldog/newtrick....would settle my obsessive mind if you would cast your opinion on the contractor's resistance to doing a metal valley. What I hear so far is that if done correctly, a metal valley is OK. Would you go further to say that a metal valley done right would handle debris better than a shingled valley done right?

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Old 08-11-2009, 10:45 AM  
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Default attempt to download pictures

here are some of the valley plus others

p1000834.jpg   p1000856.jpg   p1000853.jpg   p1000842.jpg   p1000833.jpg  

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Old 08-11-2009, 10:57 AM  
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Olddog/newtrick

the last pic above was to show that many/some shingles are ski sloped..either due to warped wood or improper storage

and re the roof ridge vent....it looks better than it is re height of opening....less than 3/4 inch and almost zip when the shingles alternate from 2ply to 5ply....if that makes sense

and added a few more pics...feel free to comment, now that I've learned how to download images

new ones: telegraphing on one slope; wide soffit w/continuous vent; a house surrounded by trees

p1000819.jpg   p1000816.jpg  
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Old 08-11-2009, 11:16 AM  
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Default A roofer who takes the time

to do what oldog/newtrick does never came on my radar....and I looked around at big and small contractors....a whole new experience getting feedback here...a number of homeowners I contacted in the area...they had a similar pitch with new roofs...they only knew no known leaks and some could not even tell me the contractor...but pleased that the roofing job only took one day...zip knowledge about installation.

as for the whole home picture..... .I could not get it to upload.....i hope the pictures offer something...they sure take up a lot of room...

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Old 08-11-2009, 11:19 AM  
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Hello Bill:
I am late in posting on this subject but I want to share my experience on the matter.
Several years ago the manufacturer's most desired method was a woven valley and was shown on each bundle of shingles.
Simply extend each run past the bottom of the valley by one foot and overlap the run on the other side by one foot the other way. To keep the shingles from tearing in the valley, there should be no nails in the valley or the extension tabs.
Glenn

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Old 08-11-2009, 02:10 PM  
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Bill, to comment on your roofers ability to install metal valleys based on a few comments and pics would not be appropiate on my part. I don't know him, his company or what type of work he does. What is his warranty period for workmanship? To express an opinion would involve more than just seeing a few pictures. It does seem that there is either some decking boards that are not secured or when the underlayment was rolled out it was not streched tight. Did they strip the old shingles and reroofed back in the same day? If not moisture (morning dew) will cause roofing felts to wrinkle.

Glad you learned to post pics, I cant even post a link. Lucky I can turn the computer on....maybe someday.

Did they fix the ridge vent issues?

Inspector D, be glad to offer free consultation, but remember you get just what you pay for it.

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Old 08-11-2009, 06:05 PM  
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oldog/newtrick,

I happen to have an old picture of the house prior to the re-roofing. The "telegraphing" is in the same place but harder to notice....40 yr heavier shingles and I didn't know better. But,I'm thinking that the contractor should have taken a closer look prior to the job,and known that the line ( which is staggered across the entire slope) would be one of the more obvious places that needed new planks.

On the valleys...can you offer a description of their technique...woven, tipping, etc ?

And Yes, I do hope Inspector D is willing to have at it. Bottom line, I want to know what is reasonable to insist upon.

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Old 08-11-2009, 07:34 PM  
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Bill, they installed a cut valley, which is the same as we install. One slope extends up and the corresponding roof shingle extends over the other. You weave the first course only, snap a line and cut down the valley. I do not like woven valleys, if you step in the valley you can fracture the shingles on an older shingle. Not so much on your roof but on steeper roofs the valleys are the travel routes.

Looking at the pics and seeing the uneven deck boards, in my opinion I would insist that they be fixed. They may never be a problem, but if you ever sell the house a home inspector might pick up on that. If you walk the roof does the boards have any play in them?

My opinion(and its an opinion) I would leave the valley issue alone and insist on the deck boards being fixed.

If you have not been there yet go to gaf.com and look at the video. It will show you about tipping the valleys. I would insist on that also. If they are a certified GAF installer and able to offer enhanced warranties they should know how to trim the top edge of the hidden shingle in the valley.



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