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-   -   To remove or keep old roof and gutter system (http://www.houserepairtalk.com/f34/remove-keep-old-roof-gutter-system-12261/)

greenlady0 10-07-2011 04:15 PM

To remove or keep old roof and gutter system
 
Original 3 tab shingle roof installed in 1996. Villa Hood Gutter SYSTEM in 2004.
Curently there is a leak around the extra large natural limestone fireplace. There is a missing 3-4' section of metal ice guard missing. About 6 years ago we noticed black streak on the roof, we cleaned it and installed zinc strips this helped with the black streaks I believe in the trade it's blue-green algae? We are located in NE Ohio with severe winters and wind year-round. We had the dangling zinc removed before it damaged shingles but the black returned. We are considering IKO Cambridge and GAF Timberline HD shingles withcertified installers and warranties. Question1. The GAF installer gives a 10 yr warranty for parts and labor with and without a tear off the IKO is 10 with tear off 5 without. BIGGEST CONCERN would anyone shingle over this particular situation? I realize no matter how many years these lifetime warranties cover no one has seen a shingle last that long, I am not about to speed up the wear and tear to save a few thousand $$ now to spend many $$later. Hubby has other ideas and thinks if these guys are willing to warranty both why not? I feel a warranty call would be hard enough without giving the co. an excuse any experience with either of these co's and warranty issues? Also speaking of warranty issues the roofers are
not wanting to void the gutter warranty by removing them and reinstalling them and say the only way to avoid this is to do a complete tear off. Any ideas here? The house is a 1950's California style ranch home with 3-4' overhangs. With theiceand water shield having to be applied in 6-12' widths/depths I am concerned with creating uneveness if the remainder of the roof stays in place. AS WELL AS THE ALGAE how will it affect the new product and its life expectancy. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

oldognewtrick 10-07-2011 06:06 PM

If I had a vote in your decision I'd suggest a complete tear off. That way damaged wood can be repaired and new flashings installed, ventilation may possibly need to be upgraded. Nail overs are cheaper but remember it will cost double labor to re-roof down the road and you will reduce the life expediency of the roof by at least a third due to the mass of shingles that will retain heat. Workmanship warranties do not cover shingle failures due to applying 2 layers to a roof. Material warranties will start prorating after a period of time and will only cover the material cost of the roofing materials.

There is a big difference between a warranty and a guarantee. Don't confuse the two.

Oh, and :welcome: to House Repair Talk.

greenlady0 10-07-2011 06:52 PM

Thanks so much

BridgeMan 10-08-2011 03:09 AM

I had a recent less-than-pleasant experience with GAF-Elk shingles, and the outfit which installed them. Roofer cut every corner in the book, but that's another story. Even had the GAF-Elk regional rep out to look things over, but he wasn't at all helpful in getting things made right. The shingles we used weren't 3-tab, but dimensional grade, with a 30-year warranty. I don't think I'd ever consider 3-tab (too flimsy, short-lived), especially in your climate.

And as previously stated, tear-off is far better than shingling over what you have now. You might consider paying (hiring) your own inspector to ride herd on what's being done on your roof, unless you or hubby aren't afraid of heights and know what to look for. Trust me, there are a lot of ways to mess up an installation. Read and learn everything you can about roofing, including getting familiar with local/state residential building code requirements for new roofs. Most manufacturers and codes require the use of nails for installing the shingles, but some outfits will try to sneak in staples.

oldognewtrick 10-08-2011 07:01 AM

Bridgeman, you didn't choose the wrong shingle, you picked the wrong installer. The biggest single reason for premature shingle failure is improper installation. All MFG's do have problems from time to time, but as you said, a lot of installers will cut corners that don't show up until you season cycle several times. There's a lot more to installing a serviceable roof system than banging in a couple of nails.

My suggestion when choosing a roofing contractor is:
-Get 3 competitive bids from qualified installers.
-Only call installers that are certified by the company who's product they will be installing. GAF has certified installers (Master Elites) GAF will stand behind the workmanship warranty for 25 years.
-Don't pick the lowest price and expect the best installation. Meaning, don't pay for a Yugo and expect a Mercedes.
-DO NOT PAY FOR THE ROOF IN FULL UNTIL THE WORK IS COMPLETED!

As bridgeman stated, use the INTERNET and get some basic knowledge of the terminology of the roofing business. How shingles are suppose to be installed, what warranty covers what and how roof ventilation works in the roof .

greenlady0 10-08-2011 09:15 AM

Elite installers
 
WE ARE LOOKING AT ONLY TOP RATED BBB installers already have heard horror stories of local yokel installers and have called only those installers who are not only highly recommended but have seen their signs in better neighborhoods for years. All have been trained by one or more factories.
It is very apparent Bridgeman went with the wrong installer not the shingle. Also I feel roofing is like carpeting the underlayment is as important as the cosmetic layer if not more so...why I am voting for the tear off. Also a correction on GAF"S warranty the 25 year is only on their best which is in effect if you purchase all of their brand name underlayment and ventilation products, the better or silver warranty is 10 years with an Elite installer and you need to use 3 out of 5 underlayment/ventilation products. Our current ventilation works so we only qualify for the better warranty no matter the shingle.
Any experience or comments as to whether the gutters need to be removed with or without tear off?

oldognewtrick 10-08-2011 09:32 AM

I wouldn't put to much faith in the BBB ratings. Call the local roofing supply house and ask for a recommendation of 3 installers or get a hold of the local territory mgr for the shingle you want and ask for 3 references. Or check on Angie's List.

If you have a question about the functionality of the gutters, call the company that installed them and see what they recommend regarding their products and how re-roofing will effect their warranty.

It's also penny wise and $$$ foolish to not replace all the components of your roof system when you re-roof... But, it's your house and my:2cents:

BridgeMan 10-08-2011 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldog/newtrick (Post 61805)

Bridgeman, you didn't choose the wrong shingle, you picked the wrong installer.

My suggestion when choosing a roofing contractor is:
-Get 3 competitive bids from qualified installers.
-Only call installers that are certified by the company who's product they will be installing. GAF has certified installers (Master Elites) GAF will stand behind the workmanship warranty for 25 years.
-Don't pick the lowest price and expect the best installation. Meaning, don't pay for a Yugo and expect a Mercedes.
-DO NOT PAY FOR THE ROOF IN FULL UNTIL THE WORK IS COMPLETED!

Oldog, FYI--

I obtained 3 bids.
I picked the guy in the middle of the 3 quotes.
Guy was certified by GAF/Elk, was a BBB member, had decent Angie's List ratings.
I refused to pay for the job after 2 call-backs were as bad as the original installation (Example--I just hate it when a worker thinks a dab of white caulk on "shiners" is a proper fix, or when another one urinates in my yard in full view of my wife).

Anything else?

To avoid the issues we had, doing everything you suggested can still result in problems, and is no guaranty of getting a satisfactory job. The vast majority of homeowners never go topside to see what is (or isn't) being done up there. Trusting a sloppy operator is a big mistake.

oldognewtrick 10-08-2011 01:11 PM

bridgeman, sorry you had a bad experience. There are some really good installers, some bad and some that fall somewhere in between. Hiring any contractor is a lot like voting, you do your reasearch and pick the one you hope will do the best.

The only way to fix a "shinner" is pull the shingle and put in a new one, and as far as the guy taking a leak in front of your wife, he should of been shown the exit sign right then and there.

greenlady0 10-08-2011 07:13 PM

Forgot about checkimg with the supply house,that is always a good lead. 2 of the 5 guys I called are recommended by GAF one was a metal only roof guy (wishful thinking on my part<was hoping the prices would be more comparable by now.no such luck) the 4th did a neighbor who was very pleased and has been in business for many years, he did 2 of her homes! But can't come out until the end of the month. The last guy is so busy he won't even take a look at our roof till spring 2012.I do have a call into the gutter people but wondered if it made a difference to a roofer whether they needed to come down? Don't want to get ripped off for unnecessary labor is why I question. Thanks again.


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