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-   -   Basement Remodel - Removal of Existing Framing Questions (http://www.houserepairtalk.com/f45/basement-remodel-removal-existing-framing-questions-17482/)

SilentGloves 03-22-2014 01:14 PM

Basement Remodel - Removal of Existing Framing Questions
 
Good Afternoon Everyone,

I apologize if this is the wrong forum, since this involves multiple topics (concrete, framing, etc.) I figured it was best placed here. Move as necessary.

I am a relatively new homeowner, and I am embarking on a likely multi-year project to re-finish my basement. I bought the home from a refurbisher, and he had ripped out most of the dated finish work in the basement. However, he left the existing framing (from the 70s), which is shoddy at best, and has some water-related rot.

I have at least one area where there is water coming in from behind the framing on an outer wall. It seems like the best bet is to just tear it all out, do the concrete repairs, and start from scratch to do it correctly. However, after close examination, I've discovered at least a couple roadblocks that leave me with questions. Your advise is welcome and appreciated. I have included several pictures.

1. The outer wall framing appears to be anchored to the concrete walls with rather large flathead fasteners. How much trouble am I asking for in trying to remove these?

2. The basement is a daylight basement. The rear wall is half concrete, and half lumber. The internal framing is ripped 2x4s attached to the structural framing. How can I safely remove the inner framing without damaging the structural framing?

Thanks!

http://www.projectfridayradio.com/images/framing_9.jpg

http://www.projectfridayradio.com/images/framing_10.jpg

http://www.projectfridayradio.com/images/framing_2.jpg

http://www.projectfridayradio.com/images/framing_4.jpg

nealtw 03-23-2014 09:41 PM

Welcome to the site. The screws should come out with a screwdriver. They are likely screwed into lead, plastic or wood plugs in the concrete. I would just cut the lower stuff off about 6" above the concrete and leave the upper stuff there. Then when you replace the wall you can build a short wall up to meet that height or go right to the ceiling.The new wall should be 1" away from the concrete and of coarse the vapour barrier will be moved to be next to the drywall.
For nails and screws that don't want to come out get a Bear Claw Nail Puller, 13" at the lumberyard.

SilentGloves 03-24-2014 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nealtw (Post 102263)
Welcome to the site. The screws should come out with a screwdriver. They are likely screwed into lead, plastic or wood plugs in the concrete.

Thanks. That was my thinking as well. But no, they were non-masonry screws screwed directly into the concrete. :confused: and at least in one area, quite rusted. I removed the first 6 or so furring strips and only had to pull out the sawzall to cut one screw. Then, however, the original installer decided that screws were too much trouble and that nails and gobs of epoxy were more appropriate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nealtw (Post 102263)
I would just cut the lower stuff off about 6" above the concrete and leave the upper stuff there. Then when you replace the wall you can build a short wall up to meet that height or go right to the ceiling.The new wall should be 1" away from the concrete and of coarse the vapour barrier will be moved to be next to the drywall.

I'm afraid you're too late. It's about 3/4 removed now. :)

I though about building a new wall in front of the existing furring strips, but that just doesn't sit right with me. Feels like a shortcut, and I didn't really know the condition of the concrete. Now that I've pulled most of it out, at least on that wall, I can repair the small holes in the concrete, put in a proper vapor barrier, rigid foam and then frame it in properly. Now that I've started, I feel the few days of extra work will be worth knowing it's done correctly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nealtw (Post 102263)
For nails and screws that don't want to come out get a Bear Claw Nail Puller, 13" at the lumberyard.

A combination of a big-*** screwdriver and a crescent wrench for leverage did the trick nicely.

Thanks for your advice!

DFBonnett 03-24-2014 08:26 AM

OP,
FWIW, that water situation might be resolved by something as simple as rerouting the leaders from the gutters outside.

SilentGloves 03-24-2014 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFBonnett (Post 102277)
OP,
FWIW, that water situation might be resolved by something as simple as rerouting the leaders from the gutters outside.

Hey, yes. I cleaned out the gutters and made sure the downspouts were clear back in the early fall of last year. Since it's a daylight basement, there is a significant grade moving downward and away from the home, I just had an issue with a backed-up downspout overflowing right there. I haven't had any water intrusion since cleaning out the gutters. If nothing else, though, I'd like to at least have that crack injection sealed.

nealtw 03-24-2014 01:42 PM

To follow DFBonnetts lead most time it is better to fix the water problems on the outside. Down spouts often run into the perimeter drain and overload it, soil should slope away from the house and you should have 6 to 8" of exposed concrete foundation on the outside.
I didn't mean to leave the wood against the concrete just the stuff agains the wall above if you have any.
When you build the new wall 1" away from the concrete you should firestop the gap at the top so a fire in the wall can't sneak into the floor joists. When we doi this we use a 2x? against the wood plate at the top of the wall as a spacer and then build the wall against that spacer and level the wall down to the floor.

Any wood that is going to touch concrete wall or floor needs to have something between the two. sill gasket or poly, even tar paper.

SilentGloves 03-24-2014 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nealtw (Post 102287)
To follow DFBonnetts lead most time it is better to fix the water problems on the outside. Down spouts often run into the perimeter drain and overload it, soil should slope away from the house and you should have 6 to 8" of exposed concrete foundation on the outside.

Noted. I have a daylight basement, so the rear grade is about 5' below the front. The grade around the house slopes away, and I have about 12" of exposed concrete on that side. All of that is pretty much already in order, and once I cleared the gutters and downspouts, I haven't had any water intrusion, even after all the snowfall and melt we've had here in Ohio. I'm certain the water intrusion issue is resolved. I will likely have an acquaintance contractor inject the crack with urethane just as a little bit of additional piece of mind, but as long as I keep that downspout clear, I shouldn't have any other issues.

Quote:

I didn't mean to leave the wood against the concrete just the stuff agains the wall above if you have any. When you build the new wall 1" away from the concrete you should firestop the gap at the top so a fire in the wall can't sneak into the floor joists. When we doi this we use a 2x? against the wood plate at the top of the wall as a spacer and then build the wall against that spacer and level the wall down to the floor.
That's good to know. I believe what you're referring to is an extension of the sill plate that sits on top of the foundation. I can rip 2x4s to the width of the foam and install that at the top against the sill plate as a fire-stop.

Quote:

Any wood that is going to touch concrete wall or floor needs to have something between the two. sill gasket or poly, even tar paper.
There likely won't be any wood touching concrete. Vapor sealed rigid foam will sit against the concrete wall, and the framing will sit outside of that. The framing will be attached at the joists, and secured to the floor with tapcon anchors.

Good information, thanks.

slownsteady 03-24-2014 10:04 PM

Quote:

Any wood that is going to touch concrete wall or floor needs to have something between the two. sill gasket or poly, even tar paper.
What do you think about laying a piece of solid PVC trim board down under the sole plate when building a basement wall? Maybe not so much under a load-bearing wall, but would this be a good separation between wood & concrete? I can see something like a 3/4" X 3 1/2" X 8' as a possibility (maybe even thinner if available).

slownsteady 03-24-2014 10:12 PM

Quote:

I haven't had any water intrusion since cleaning out the gutters. If nothing else, though, I'd like to at least have that crack injection sealed.
Depending on where you live, it can be a seasonal water problem. No trouble in the summer, or when the ground is frozen, but a good heavy rain on top of a spring thaw can really test the foundation. Add melting snow to that just for fun.
If those circumstances are present, take your time and don't button up the wall till you're sure the leak is not a problem.

nealtw 03-24-2014 10:42 PM

Plastic under the plate on the floor too, all wood touching the floor should have it. Sometimes when you build the wall away from the foundation you find the the concrete has some curves and the wall get pretty close, if they touch protect the wood with plastic.


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