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Old 07-24-2010, 07:00 PM  
Nestor_Kelebay
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I don't think it means anything at all.

Cuz it don't make no sense to me neither.



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Old 07-24-2010, 07:16 PM  
joblake326
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Cuz it don't make no sense...
Are you talking about my explanation or the 6 comes before 7 comment?
I'm kidding.
So did my essay about the StudTHUD answer your question?
-John


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Old 07-24-2010, 09:44 PM  
mudmixer
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Sorry, but I saw your unfinished "essay" that was interrupted and posted before you had time to get around to completing it later. It had a "6" section followed by another "6" section that was probably incomplete although a "7" may have followed if it was important. Most computers have save and post features.

Entering incomplete or partial ideas is a very very bad thing when it is public and especially when it is regarding a patent since you can easily be a "sitting duck" for second and later moves if it works. Don''t sell/peddle before you have everything in order because proper marketing and exposure really mean more than a good idea.

That is the basis behind patents, patent protection and non-disclosure documents that are very basic.

Dick

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Old 07-24-2010, 11:17 PM  
Nestor_Kelebay
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John:

I think you would be best advised to concentrate on the visual response provided by the Stud Thud Pro.

People are comfortable with visual information. We rely on our eyes for 99.9 percent of the information we process in a day. Having a magnet smack a wall to provide both an audible and tactile response is also proof of the presence of a screw or nail. However, I feel that the VISUAL feedback the Stanley tool provides as you use it is an inherant advantage of it's design. Being able to watch and SEE the magnet point to the same spot on the wall as you move the tool this way and that provides visual proof that there's a screw or nail under that spot, and we simply have more confidence in what our eyes tell us than we do in the information provided by any or our other senses. We've felied on our eyes to tell us what's happening around us for so long, that we've instinctively come to accept visual information as the most reliable. As a result, any magnetic stud finder that provides visual proof of the locations of nails and screws is going to be regarded as being more "reliable" and/or "easier to use", and that's simply because we trust what our eyes tell us more than we trust any of our other senses.

In fact, the novelty of "magic" lies ENTIRELY in the fact that our brains can't believe what our eyes are seeing. There would be little entertainment value in "auditory magic" where we hear a train approaching but it turns out to be a boat. Magic is where we SEE a train approaching, but it turns out to be a boat.

So, there is an instinctive prejudice to trust visual information as being more reliable, and the Stanley tool provides that visual response. The only way you can overcome the human prejudice to prefer visual information is by designing a stud finder that logic dictates should work better than competing models of magnetic stud finders, regardless of whether it responds with a noise a movement or in a way we can feel with the tips of our fingers. Our brains will only trust logic more than visual information. That's how we know that magic is a trick.

All the rest are just my general thoughts and ramblings...

I think that you need to explain how your Stud Thud works, and why it's operating principle is better than competing studfinders. I'm not hearing enough of that to convince me that there's a SIGNIFICANT advantage in purchasing the Stud Thud over any other magnetic stud finder. And, without that, why would I or anyone else buy one? And, of course, you're not going to get your Stud Thud taking up valuable shelf space in retail stores unless you can convince the store managers of that too.

I now understand how the Magic Studfinder works, and I really don't consider having little magnets stuck to my wall to be a significant advantage over marking the wall with a pencil. I actually consider the little magnets to be a disadvantage because I can imagine them getting lost and my dog choking on one, and me just ending up using them as fridge magnets.

You're selling point for the Stud Thud were:

Quote:
1. Ease of use: it's so obvious that all you do is ask someone to rub it on the wall to find a stud and wham! As soon as they ride it over a screw, the magnet plunges forward and whacks the wall. If you move it away, the magnet returns to its resting position and is ready to "thud" the next screw. If you just let it go when it's in its "thud" position, it'll just stay attached to the wall showing you where the stud is.
(From this I understand the Stud Thud to simply be a magnet suspended by elastic cords inside an enclosure.)

Sorry, but I just don't see an advantage there. I see the fact that the visible magnet in the Stanley points to where the stud is as an advantage because if it points to the same spot as you move it over the wall, that's confirmation that there's something magnetic at that spot. The Stud Thud sticks or doesn't. It doesn't provide any indication that you're approaching a screw until it thuds.

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2. You don't have to look at it since it can be held in any position and its "thud" will tell you when it's found something.
But, the user is probably going to be looking at the Stud Thud anyhow simply to see what he/she is doing. Besides, if you get an audible and tactile response from the Stud Thud saying you've found a screw, you're first respose will be to look at it anyhow. So, wherein lay the advantage in not looking at it while searching for a stud?

Quote:
3. It will find fasteners in ceilings and floors. This is useful if you need to find out where the strapping is in the ceiling. I'm not sure how useful it is for floors---but I guess a more useful variation on this would be to find hidden metal in wood that you're going to plane. So rather than ruining your planer's blade, the StudTHUD, can be rubbed over the surface of the board and it will thud whenever it finds even the slightest piece of metal.
Well, underlayment is often screwed down, and then the screws will be covered with a cement based floor leveling compound. So, I can imagine someone using a magnetic stud finder to find out exactly where those screws are and removing them prior to pulling up the underlayment.

But, any magnetic stud finder would be able to do that.

Quote:
4. There are no parts to lose. (Magic Studfinder has those discs) The StudTHUD has everything locked up inside of the housing.
That's an advantage, but it's not enough of an advantage to convince someone to buy ANOTHER magnetic stud finder. Besides, the Stanley has everything inside it's housing too.

Quote:
5. The size and shape. It is small enough to stick in your pocket but big enough so that you won't lose it. It feels just right in your hand.
C'mon man. I'll concede that the Stanley studfinder is uncomfortable to sit on. But, ergonomics is going to be a hard sell here because you typically only use the tool for a few minutes at a time. You're not using it all day long, 7 days a week, 52 weeks per year where ergonomics would be important.

Quote:
6. The magnet is 1 inch in diameter. This makes it very easy to find fasteners since it is scanning such as large area. Anyone should be able to find a screw in a sheetrocked wall within 10 seconds.

From that point, you just move it straight up to find more and then straight down. Then move it 16" to the left or right to find fasteners in the adjacent studs and you've got a solid picture of exactly what is going on behind that wall.
Yes, but even if it takes me a full minute to find that first screw, I've only lost 50 valuable seconds of my life because all the rest of the screws will be found just as quickly using any magnetic stud finder.

Quote:
7. There are 3 different flavors to choose from:
Well, we only get to this point if the customer is convinced that the Stud Thud is better than all the other magnetic stud finders on the market.

I applaud your willingness to promote your product, but unless you can provide people with a compelling reason to reach into their pockets for money to buy the Stud Thud, I can't see any reason why the Stud Thud would be any more popular than the Magic Studfinder. And, quite honestly, I had never even heard of the Magic Studfinder prior to your starting this thread.

What you might consider is redesigning a magnetic stud finder that has a powerful Earth magnet mounted inside a gimbal:



(or that floats frictionless in a small dish of mercury)

so that you just hold it against the wall and the magnet automatically points to the closest drywall screw or nail.

That way, you wouldn't even have to search for that first screw or nail to find all the others.
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Old 07-25-2010, 09:34 PM  
joblake
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Originally Posted by mudmixer View Post
Sorry, but I saw your unfinished "essay" that was interrupted and posted before you had time to get around to completing it later....
Hi Dick,
As I was writing my "essay" I was periodically hitting the "save" button not "post". So I'm not sure if I DID hit post by accident or what happened. But I did write the whole thing in one sitting. I didn't post part of it and then come back and post the rest later.
-John
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Old 07-25-2010, 09:43 PM  
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Hi Nestor,
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my essay with your own short story
Although I disagree with many of your philosophical points about what makes a good stud finder, I certainly can't argue the fact that I have to make a strong case for why anyone would want to get my stud finder instead of any of the other ones out there.
Thanks again,
John

p.s.
no animals, elastic bands, springs or duct tape were used in the making of the StudTHUD
(and you're kidding about the magnet floating in a bowl of mercury...right?)

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Old 07-27-2010, 01:49 AM  
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(and you're kidding about the magnet floating in a bowl of mercury...right?)
...maybe an X-ray machine that could x-ray the wall to locate the studs...
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Old 07-27-2010, 05:03 PM  
joblake326
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Originally Posted by Nestor_Kelebay View Post
...maybe an X-ray machine that could x-ray the wall to locate the studs...
hmmmm. Mercury and X-Rays to find wall studs. You've really got some healthy ideas about tool design. Just how "senior" a member are you?
Now I know you've been yanking my chain for sure.
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:52 PM  
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Why all this talk about finding studs? They're right behind the drywall. Rip out the drywall and you'll find them. It's easy.



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