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Old 02-26-2014, 09:36 AM  
Chris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuzzat? View Post
So as you fill the pipe with water
the pressure will go from almost zero to
very high
very quickly.

It's a problem of control.

You need a relief valve on the test pump that releases at 200 PSI, +/-.

Post a link to your test pump. If it's positive displacement it can be easily damaged.
This is my set up, a Rice Hydro Gas pump.

http://www.ricehydro.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=151



Quote:
Originally Posted by nealtw View Post
If your pipe is installed with the required slope and you pump it at the top of the slope to 200 lbs, how much pressure do you have at the bottom of the slope?
If the pipe was expandable, you would have fill it to it's max size before you get the needed pressure.
The last one I tested was a fire line I installed for a distribution center, Approx 8,000 feet of 10" Pipe all in one test.

I don't have any issues getting up to pressure. My question is once the line is full and air is bleed off, if water can not be compressed where does the extra water go that builds the pressure up? This has been an ongoing debate on the jobsite.


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Old 02-26-2014, 10:57 AM  
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There is not extra water going anyplace you are pumping against a head pressure. Depending on what type of pump you have “dead heading” can be ok or it could be bad. What you might need is an accumulator that has a gas filled side to maintain pressure and make up for small leakage without pressure loss. There are pumps that are pressure or flow compensating and there are also relief valves that allow extra flow back to tank. Sounds like yours is regulated.



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Old 02-26-2014, 11:27 AM  
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We are allowed a percentage of loss per foot of pipe. We have no problems with maintaining 200 psi as that is our job.

Maybe I am half retarded in my question.

They say water is not compressible.

Say you have a 12" round 1" think steel cylinder with a lid at the highest point, a steel that can not flex or move in any way. Fill it to the top with water and cap it. you have 0psi but it is full of water. Now hook up the pump and pump in some water to get your 200 psi, where did that water go if water is not compressible?

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Old 02-26-2014, 11:45 AM  
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The water didn’t get in just the pressure did. Or the energy did. The water came against a fixed head built pressure and then moved thru a relief valve on your system most likely. The pump keeps moving water but not into the pipe unless some leaks out. That’s one type of pump fixed displacement. Then there are variable displacement pumps that only move the water that’s required but maintain the constant pressure. Kind of like the brakes on your car. You push on the brakes and only a little fluid moves to close the brake pads and then the pressure acts on the pads but oil doesn’t keep moving just the energy.

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Old 02-26-2014, 12:13 PM  
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But I can measure water gone to inside the pipe?

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Old 02-26-2014, 12:34 PM  
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Well your hypothetical example said the pipe doesn’t stretch and water is non compressible and no leaks etc. Water contains some air bubbles and there are areas in the piping system with trapped air I’m sure. Going to 200 PSI would compress any air trapped in the piping about 15 times smaller.

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Old 02-26-2014, 01:04 PM  
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You are probably right, it is just one of those things I have been questioning because in some situations it takes a bit of water. It does make sense if the water has quite a bit of air in it.

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Old 02-26-2014, 01:18 PM  
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With noncompressible water and totally rigid containers the pressure should go from zero PSI to infinite PSI instantly. Math-wise it's called a 'step function'.
The extra water going in is probably leaking past seals.

With those flow rates and pressures, if a hose breaks people probably be going to the hospital.

Fifty hours to fill this pipe @11 GPM?



If this diet method works you heard it here first.
If it doesn't work, you don'tknowdon'tknowyou don'tknowdon'tknowdon'tknowdon'tknowyou don'tknowdon'tknow where you heard it.

Use a digital scale to see small gains and losses within the same day so you remember what you ate.
Your daily weight variations (-4 to +2 lbs) are noise that hide the signal and the signal is your gradual weight gain/loss.
The spreadsheet trendline or slope calculation picks out the signal. Currently for me it's -0.193 lb/day, so I'm losing weight.

BTW, more than 1 lb/day is fasting or water loss, 1 or 2 lbs/week is reasonable.

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Old 02-27-2014, 05:53 AM  
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Actually liquids under static pressure are much safer than a mixture of compressible gasses and liquids. Just as in your example the pressure will instantly go from zero to max PSI I don’t like the idea of infinite PSI once the system is allowed to leak the pressure will instantly drop. With compressed gasses involved with the failure is when you get in trouble the gasses rapid expansion will propel the hazards.

As to diets I think you are absolutely correct about the daily readings being noise plus truth whereas the noise is the majority of the measurement. Only long term data has any meaning and that’s why most people will tell you to stay off the scales and set an interval to be weighed that minimizes the noise with greater true measurements. Very few of us have history over long time spans of weight loss data but most of us have history over many years of weight gain. A typical case may be the guy that gained 50 lbs over the 20 years elapsed from high school. That’s 7,300 days or 50/7,300 = .007 pounds per day. Most people don’t want to take 20 years to lose the extra weight at .007 lbs/day but even if you ramped it up 10 times as fast as you gained it you would be at .07 lbs/day and only take 2 years to lose the 50 pounds.

The real problem IMO is we have genetic programing that has been millions of years in the process that we are fighting to alter. The majority of that time we evolved from eating when we could and that could be weeks or months between periods of feasting. Now we have fast food on every corner packed with more fuel than we will ever need to procure it seeing as how we don’t even have to get off our seat to get it.

I have an app on my smart phone that keeps track of my bicycle rides and maps the course and also the elevation changes. We rode a 40 mile ride from the city to a brewery that was a good deal up hill. And when we got there I flipped to see how much energy I burned and my friend commented look at that you earned a beer and a half. I was ready for a burger and about 3 pints going by my internal measurement for refueling.

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Old 02-27-2014, 06:27 AM  
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Over my life I've gained ~0.4 lb/year. The average for me is now -0.4 lb/day over ten days but the scatter plot shows that in the last four days I lost six lbs.
I'm still eating so I must be very active or our new scale is broken.
This experiment is full of surprises.



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