DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Green Energy and Sustenance Living > We never had a green thing in the old days




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Old 10-10-2013, 01:07 PM  
bud16415
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China is a government based economy and the US is still a market based economy. In both cases the government makes the laws. I don’t actually know what is written into other nations laws but it’s purely academic if a government doesn’t enforce its laws on itself. What’s true is governments like China have an energy plan and are putting it in place to meet the demand for power their economic plan requires. The goal IMO is the economic plan at all cost. All medical statics show where their main goals are focused. You are correct Mexico is still a “free for all” and I have seen firsthand polluting by the companies we view as the “Green” leaders in the world by relocating there. All the big multinational companies are going to go to where the playing field is at least level and love going to where it’s tilted in their favor.

In many ways you and I are expressing the same viewpoint in terms of the good old days. It is much more complex than the OP’s post. Mom had time in the old days to take advantage of the solar clothes drying because she had the economic luxury of being at home when the sun was up. Many of the modern energy consuming devices make life easier but the economy we live in makes two family income more of a necessity. What is the net sum of all this is the question, more output, greater population, more energy required. The equation is quite complicated. I suppose we also have to compare our (US) welfare system to these other countries.



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Old 10-10-2013, 06:20 PM  
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I post this because I thought it was funny. I agree with what both you guys are saying and For the things I don't agree with I will let them go as it could slip into politics to fast.



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Old 10-11-2013, 11:37 AM  
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Bud,
Civil conversations and ways to pass the time,

I deal with a ton of compliance stuff in electronics OSHA, Reach, WEEE, RoHS, Conflict Minerals etc etc. I wouldn't say the US Gov is too far off from a government based economy. It started with Rail Roads, then Social security, now it's Obamacare essentially governmentizing the insurance industry by making it so the government can close down a company if they don't comply with certain requirements. Being young, I wasn't around when public transit and the rail way was governmentalized but I am here for the healthcare. This change in turn will control 99% of the healthcare industry which is one of our bigger sectors. If this sector, the one that controls the QOL for our citizens can have this happen, what can't? Which since people use "bad economy" and "green" as escape goats, it makes perfect sense they look for some way to quick fix a systemic problem that started 3-5 generations ago depending how quickly your family procreated.

Conflict minerals (green/human rights initiative by SEC" is the first real step into controlling the electronics industry (along with other sectors) and it's succeeding beautifully.

It seem governmentalization or socialism if you prefer is something that at this point isn't possible to stop. First trains, then social secuirty, now healthcare, 100 years from now they may hail Social security as the first great step down an amazing road of equality and peace that eventually leads to starships and replicators... we'll see. I'm actually a big fan of socialism but, with our sin nature I just don't think it can happen. Here's a good link that I think perfectly explains why http://www.whowillwinthe2012election.com/college-economics-professor-flunks-entire-class-for-sympathetic-socialistic-views/

To reiterate again, please don't blame Obama, his Father didn't teach him any better, he's just following the example of his forefathers.

Oh but Neal, isn't it fun?

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02/1/14: 37k & 550 hours
08/18/14: 38k & 650 hours it's starting to come together or maybe I'm coming apart

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Old 10-11-2013, 12:50 PM  
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Great article you linked. When I was a young man entering into industry we were about at the first test the teacher gave in the article. No one was happy about carrying the small amount of the population but it was small enough and the rewards high enough to clearly stay the course work hard and be successful on your own merits. Also the reward for doing nothing wasn’t all that great and the population as a whole clearly didn’t want to be on the receiving end one because it wasn’t that great and two because there was a social stigma for those doing it. Nearing the end of my professional life now we are moving in closer to the second or third test the professor gave. It’s not like his example though to most maybe because in his example only a matter of weeks between tests and it was very clear the shift. In my life I have seen the shift over 40 years in the workplace and that is the idea behind progressivism. If you throw a live frog into a pot of boiling water he will use his last bit of energy to jump out as he hits the boiling water. If you put that same frog in a pot of cool water and slowly turn up the heat it will happily sit there till it boils.

We have past the tipping point within the last ten years I would say. As long as more receive than the rest contribute why wouldn’t it progress in the desired direction to socialism.

I remember thinking a long time ago how industry (actually producing something) can support so much service industry. Someone asked and remarked on how one major company loss in a large town employing only 5% of the population would devastate the entire town closing its doors. All these figures are upside down now and its as if everyone can survive servicing each other or worse only half the people doing service and somehow manufacturing wealth enough to carry the other half. As long as the government is in the loop and can borrow and print money as needed this plan should go along nicely. I think Germany tried something similar once. Weimar Republic it was called then 1923. I don’t see us having hyperinflation more like the frog in the cool water inflation. We see what they want us to see as tax in our pay but there are many hidden taxes even the Supreme Court said Obamacare mandate had to be viewed as a tax. Every bit of rising prices or declining wages taken around the whole economic loop IMO is a secret tax. All this money has to come from someplace and if they took it all as payroll tax we would stop working and go over to the other side.

As a young man I could have seen socialism at its theory as a good thing even though I don’t think I ever saw it as being a good thing in the real world. I’m a capitalist at heart and it may sound cruel to not want everyone equal. The founders said we are all equal in having our best shot they never said we were all equal in our skills and abilities. I actually see it as cruel to not put the stress of life on everyone and force them to sink or swim. Then and only then offer the hand up to those that sink.

I do agree a civil conversation among friends is always nice.

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Old 10-11-2013, 01:07 PM  
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Your article got me thinking and I was told last night where we bought the new house we will get a million trick or treaters and we should stock up. I think I have a plan that will save me some money and teach the youngsters and the parents that walk along the proper way trick or treat should be handled.

I’m going to sit out front with my bag of treats and as the kids come up take a look at their loot bags maybe even weigh them I will have another pot there labeled ObamaCandy. Those that are faster and cover more ground should have more candy and instead of giving them a piece of mine, ok I will give them one piece but require them, ok mandate them to give me two of their pieces for the ObamaCandy pot telling them that when the slackers come along with light sacks I will give them two of mine and one from the pot.

Yep I think I’m on to something not quite perfect because I’m still a wealth center as I’m producing some candy to start. In the perfect world the kids would just give each other their candy and no one would ever have to buy any.

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Old 10-11-2013, 05:26 PM  
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ObamaCandy See how easy that was, I think it's against the rules.
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Old 10-12-2013, 01:19 PM  
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Bud, you'll have to let me know how that turns out, I wonder how much TP you'll have on your house in the morning? What part of ObamaCandy is that, where people finally revolt and we start over? To think this government that was established to literally be torn down every 21 or 40 years (can't remember how long a score is 7 or 10 years?) and yet it's lasted that long. I think that kind of goes along with the frog slowly boiling in a pot theory huh?



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10/1/11: Bought the perfect house;
11/1/12: 10k & 200 hours
08/1/13: 30k & 400 hours into the perfect house
12/1/13: 35k & 500 hours
02/1/14: 37k & 550 hours
08/18/14: 38k & 650 hours it's starting to come together or maybe I'm coming apart

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