DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Electrical and Wiring > 12/2 Romex or 14/2 Romex for Recessed Can Lighting?




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-13-2014, 06:25 PM  
nealtw
Contractor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: vancouver, b.c.
Posts: 10,272
Liked 848 Times on 757 Posts
Likes Given: 1465

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by savatreatabvr View Post
Some of us don't make as much money as you do so I'd rather do it myself and hire "men off the parking lot at HD" then hire an over priced arrogant pro that MILKS his time and charges for every single wire nut!!!
That's really not fair, you come here looking for opinions and Speedy has one, he may charge full value for his labour and nuts but he is here giving his time.


__________________
nealtw is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2014, 07:04 AM  
bud16415
Fixer Upper
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Erie Pa, Pa
Posts: 1,233
Liked 353 Times on 283 Posts
Likes Given: 115

Default

I also find it a bit ironic that someone would come here and explain how some workers they picked up off the back of a truck at a home improvement box store and they didn’t know what they were doing caused a problem and asked for advise on how to fix it. A professional on his own time offered some advice as did a few other of us nonprofessionals but nonetheless time is time. The comments were very uncalled for. From the beginning I was surprised that someone in the security system installation field wouldn’t have at least a basic understanding of residential wiring. I can understand not knowing code and such but was just surprised at some of the questions. I guess we live in a specialized world now. But for one “pro” from one trade to talk bad about another in quite a similar trade I don’t understand that at all.

I don’t really have a problem with people picking up workers wherever they can find them but people have to understand a lot of what you are paying for with a professional is the obvious stuff like years of training and experience, but also the overhead of such a profession. These pros come into your home insured and bonded and will take responsibility for their actions. If they damage something it’s covered and if someone is hurt they are covered for that. One of these non-pros gets killed on the job look out.

It’s not just building trades you need to worry about. Around here snow removal is a biggie you can find some guy with an old pickup truck and a plow and he will plow your drive for 10 bucks. Maybe 999 out of 1000 times there won’t be a problem, but it only takes once and you can be in big trouble. They call these guys lowballers and there is no way someone following the rules can compete with them even close.

When I hire a pro I know up front the cost and I expect to pay for all materials used. If the job is quoted it should all be in there. There will also be terms for extras. If I find the pricing to high I don’t bad mouth the man I simply don’t hire him. There really should be very few surprises if done right.

You get what you pay for.



__________________
bud16415 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2014, 12:19 PM  
savatreatabvr
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 46
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy petey View Post
Well, I don't make as much as you might think, which is why I DIY pretty much everything in my home.
And what makes you think that EVERY professional tradesman is A) arrogant, and B) "MILKS" his time on a job??? Have you fallen victim to a shady fly-by-night contractor? If so I am sorry. There are unfortunately plenty of them out there to give us legitimate honest guys a bad name. This is why you should always go by recommendations and word-of-mouth.

Also, WHY would we not charge for every wire nut???? I paid for them, I use them on your job, WHY would I give them away for free??????
What do you do for a living? Is it customary that you give things away? Or work some of your time for free?
Every been to a layer, or an accountant, or Target?? Not many freebies there either.
My trade is called Special Systems, it's the installation of commercial fire, security, access control, CCTV & life safety equipment. I know what it takes to properly complete a job. I don't take 12 wire nuts, I take boxes just in case I lose some or accidentally end up at home with a few in my pocket "LIKE WE ALL DO" so if I charged per wire nut like you say you do I'd be screwing my customers, correct me if I'm wrong? Same with wire, do you charge by the inch? Have you ever used wire bidded for a specific job in your own personal home projects? Do you toss scraps in the garbage after a job is complete? Guess what, the customer is paying for that! I didn't mean to offend you, no not every tradesman try's to get rich off one job but the ones who do give the construction industry a bad name so yeah in this economy I'm cautious!
__________________
savatreatabvr is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-14-2014, 05:08 PM  
speedy petey
Lic.Electrical Contractor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 445
Liked 39 Times on 27 Posts
Likes Given: 17

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by savatreatabvr View Post
I didn't mean to offend you, no not every tradesman try's to get rich off one job but the ones who do give the construction industry a bad name so yeah in this economy I'm cautious!
I was not offended since your examples of shady contractors don't apply to me, but I do get bothered (not offended) when folks throw a blanket over all contractors as shady.

It really sucks that the few bad ones make the rest look bad. Also location has A LOT to do with it. I know in the NYC/LI area there are plenty of guys willing to take your $$$ and never do a day's work.
At the same time, the SAME can be said for customers. I have seen more crooked customers in my day than contractors. Then again, in my area we are lucky to have very many decent contractors, yet at the same time A LOT of weekenders that come up from the metropolitan area, and some do bring their bullsh*t "screw anyone you can" attitude. Again, the select bad few make the rest look suspicious.
__________________
speedy petey is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-15-2014, 08:41 PM  
savatreatabvr
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 46
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy petey View Post
I was not offended since your examples of shady contractors don't apply to me, but I do get bothered (not offended) when folks throw a blanket over all contractors as shady.

It really sucks that the few bad ones make the rest look bad. Also location has A LOT to do with it. I know in the NYC/LI area there are plenty of guys willing to take your $$$ and never do a day's work.
At the same time, the SAME can be said for customers. I have seen more crooked customers in my day than contractors. Then again, in my area we are lucky to have very many decent contractors, yet at the same time A LOT of weekenders that come up from the metropolitan area, and some do bring their bullsh*t "screw anyone you can" attitude. Again, the select bad few make the rest look suspicious.
Funny, I never said "ALL CONTRACTORS" are shady! I'd be putting myself under that category if I did! Don't get me wrong we have our share of inexperienced morons who think they can strap on a tool belt and call themselves electricians or any tradesman! You see, here in Arizona we have something called "The Right to Work" (look it up)!
__________________
savatreatabvr is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-15-2014, 09:16 PM  
nealtw
Contractor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: vancouver, b.c.
Posts: 10,272
Liked 848 Times on 757 Posts
Likes Given: 1465

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by savatreatabvr View Post
Funny, I never said "ALL CONTRACTORS" are shady! I'd be putting myself under that category if I did! Don't get me wrong we have our share of inexperienced morons who think they can strap on a tool belt and call themselves electricians or any tradesman! You see, here in Arizona we have something called "The Right to Work" (look it up)!
You never said ,some or a few,or most ,you said contractors. There are contractors of all stripes here that would take that wrong.
We all expect contractors to be responsible for there mistakes, can we expect the same from you.
__________________
nealtw is offline  
speedy petey Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-16-2014, 09:27 AM  
nealtw
Contractor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: vancouver, b.c.
Posts: 10,272
Liked 848 Times on 757 Posts
Likes Given: 1465

Default

Back to the original problem, a simple continuity tester with long lead can be used to trace wires. Hook one lead to a black wire and find hit other black wire with the other lead until you find the other end of that wire. Map all the new wires. If you find some don't connect you have bigger problems.

__________________
nealtw is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-16-2014, 10:30 AM  
bud16415
Fixer Upper
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Erie Pa, Pa
Posts: 1,233
Liked 353 Times on 283 Posts
Likes Given: 115

Default

If using the continuity method you still need to kill the power to the wires first as per post 7. If not you will likely get a surprise. I think everything he would need to do could be accomplished with just checking voltage and flipping switches though.

__________________
bud16415 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-16-2014, 10:47 AM  
nealtw
Contractor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: vancouver, b.c.
Posts: 10,272
Liked 848 Times on 757 Posts
Likes Given: 1465

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
If using the continuity method you still need to kill the power to the wires first as per post 7. If not you will likely get a surprise. I think everything he would need to do could be accomplished with just checking voltage and flipping switches though.
He has rough in with drywall over it, so nothing should be powered up.
__________________
nealtw is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-16-2014, 11:14 AM  
bud16415
Fixer Upper
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Erie Pa, Pa
Posts: 1,233
Liked 353 Times on 283 Posts
Likes Given: 115

Default

I never saw where he said that. I thought he had some guys he hired off the back of a truck demo it and they left a bunch of old wiring hanging and leading to points unknown in the walls. With the potential to still be powered up.



__________________
bud16415 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter DIY Home Repair Forum Replies Last Post
Outdoor THHN transition to Indoor Romex toofast Electrical and Wiring 6 10-17-2013 01:27 PM
Romex Vs THHN in condtioned area gottodo1 Electrical and Wiring 10 08-24-2013 11:26 AM
Nm-b romex run outdoors alexb5647 Electrical and Wiring 24 03-11-2013 10:17 AM
connecting old BX cable to new romex wiring drewdin Electrical and Wiring 6 01-02-2013 12:01 PM
Romex Routing in Attic 69-er Electrical and Wiring 3 02-19-2007 02:40 PM