DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Electrical and Wiring > 2 circuits on a 3 wire





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Old 04-02-2009, 09:28 PM  
vdotmatrix
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Originally Posted by kok328 View Post
Ok, here's a technique that is not commonly utilized in residential applications but, is still kosher.
You can share a neutral conductor between two individual circuits as long as they are from opposite phases in the load center (i.e.-slots 1&3 are on the same phase whereas, slots 1&2 are on opposite phases). Therefore, being that these are dedicated circuits, it would be safe to use just one neutral out of your 2 12/3 runs, for the entire bathroom.
So depending where you put those (2) 20A breakers in the load center, will depend on whether or not all those neutrals bundled together will be OK or not.
WOW! That is where being an electrician can save one a lot of time and cost down the road. Yeah, I put them both on the other side, bottom right in the panel... The heat circuit are the red and white to the right side..not neutrally pigtailed as you can see the others are! Name:  IMG_6263ps.jpg
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Size:  45.7 KB I ran the 2 12/3 to keep the number of wires in to either boxes down to a minimum since after all, the switch box is only 34cu blue box and i may be approaching the limit of number of wires going into it...

OMG, I hope I haven't exceed the limit of wires going into this switch box




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Old 04-03-2009, 06:17 AM  
kok328
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not even sure what I'm looking at in the second pic but, don't like what I'm looking at if I'm seeing it correctly. And the first pic isn't close enough to read anything, it's just an exposed load center.
For all practical purposes, you could have pulled one 12/3 wire from load center to switch box. Share the neutral (white), heater on the black from phase A (breaker #1) and light and fan on the red from phase B (breaker#2).



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Old 04-03-2009, 09:08 AM  
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not even sure what I'm looking at in the second pic but, don't like what I'm looking at if I'm seeing it correctly. And the first pic isn't close enough to read anything, it's just an exposed load center.
For all practical purposes, you could have pulled one 12/3 wire from load center to switch box. Share the neutral (white), heater on the black from phase A (breaker #1) and light and fan on the red from phase B (breaker#2).
Don't know what you mean about what you don't like in the picture, but the diagram clearly shows what I have done in the previous post. ...the other stuff about different phases and such may be beyond the scope of the average home owner doin his own work....I have kept things simple as far as I can.....Thanks for your response!
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Old 04-03-2009, 10:32 AM  
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No worry, it's just a personal preference thing w/me. I don't like to see wirenuts in a load center and I've never seen any diagram in any of your posts. I'm always hesitant to redirect someone unless they are doing something wrong. There are multiple ways to accomplish what you are doing and being that you understood your approach, I just went with it but, then later advised you of alternative approaches (of course my method would leave the average homeowner scratching their head). You'll be just fine with either setup.

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Old 04-03-2009, 12:16 PM  
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KOK Man thanks for looking. I appreciate a place like this where people can come in and get help doing some of this stuff...Now I have learned a different aspect of wiring which I will read up about which is phasing in regard to wiring!!!! We save a lot of money doing a lot of this work ourselves..

I do like to caution people who do it yourselves with regard to plumbing and electrical work; HAVE THE WORK INSPECTED BY YOUR LOCAL CODE ENFORCEMENT PEOPLE and pull a permit.40 or 50 dollars is a small price to pay for expert advise on the work you do on your own home. After all, you don't want to endanger your family with work done that is not up to the latest code. The other reason to have stuff inspected , especially electrical , is that if you do have a fire, the Marshall will check at city hall to see if your work was approved, if not your insurance might not pay for damages......

Cheers and thanks to everyone!

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Old 04-04-2009, 11:22 AM  
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No worry, it's just a personal preference thing w/me. I don't like to see wirenuts in a load center and I've never seen any diagram in any of your posts. I'm always hesitant to redirect someone unless they are doing something wrong. There are multiple ways to accomplish what you are doing and being that you understood your approach, I just went with it but, then later advised you of alternative approaches (of course my method would leave the average homeowner scratching their head). You'll be just fine with either setup.
MAn I was making Waffles for breakfast this morning and i was thinking about "wirenuts in the load center" and was trying to figure what your were talking about. LOAD Center, load center....OH, he means the electrical panel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course!!!!!!

Okay...I don't like it either but you have to have some background. The contractor that put in our new addition 5-6 years ago ended up with a few circuits that went NOWHERE at all. But they were attached to a breaker....

I needed a slot on that side of the , a-hemmm, LOAD CENTER, for a welding circuit for the garage and saw that one....I pulled out the wire and secured everything out of the way and capped everything with wire nuts until I can go in and trace this perfectly good 12/2 20A circuit to nowhere through the basement ceiling and so on....

That is why yuo see the blue wire nut!!! GOOD EYE DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Old 04-04-2009, 03:25 PM  
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Correction to my previous post where I stated:
"You can share a neutral conductor between two individual circuits as long as they are from opposite phases in the load center (i.e.-slots 1&3 are on the same phase whereas, slots 1&2 are on opposite phases). "

Slots 1&2 are on the same phase & slots 1&3 are on opposite phase.

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Old 04-04-2009, 06:26 PM  
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Correction to my previous post where I stated:
"You can share a neutral conductor between two individual circuits as long as they are from opposite phases in the load center (i.e.-slots 1&3 are on the same phase whereas, slots 1&2 are on opposite phases). "

Slots 1&2 are on the same phase & slots 1&3 are on opposite phase.
Well there ya go! I would have failed the inspection ( not because of you), if I would have located the breakers on the wrong side of the LOAD CENTER.

This is a way advanced electrical concept/technique, which would have made the Inspector otherwise, not have to examine the load center for this premise; but this could have saved wire if you didn't have enough room in the box due to wire volume calculation limit and would have been clever!

Wow what a mess, to have to have gone back in and rewire the load center for opposite phases for these 2 circuits....uggg.

Alright Poindexter, now I have to know...from the picture of my 40 slot load center, the 2 "new" breakers for this project are located on the right hand, "even" side, #36 and #38.

Are these circuits phased equally or opposed?
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Old 04-04-2009, 09:31 PM  
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36 & 38 are on opposite/adjacent phases.

However, if they were not, you don't have to rewire anything, just move the circuit breakers.

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Old 04-13-2009, 07:32 PM  
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My project passed both electrical and mechanical final inspections this morning!!!

Thanks to everyone for their interest!!!


cheers



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