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Quattro · 03-13-2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeD

I thought you meant connecting a wire from the existing ground bus to the new one you want to install in your main panel.

This is what I meant! I need more room in the existing ground/neutral bus in the main panel. There isn't enough room for each neutral to have it's own spot. Not even close! Why did they do this?

And you're right on the double-wired breakers. There are two. Both were done by (I assume) the previous owner or original owner.The one on the mid-left is the doorbell transformer. The upper right is the washing machine and something else. I need to trace what the "something else" is. There is an open slot at the bottom left (breaker, no wire), so it can me moved there I suppose.

Thanks!

Square Eye · 03-14-2007, 03:17 PM

The green wire is the ground connection from the main panel to the sub panel. And the ground wire connection to the grounding rod is made in the meter base.

A ground jumper from the original grounding buss would be necessary to the new grounding bar as the main panel doesn't seem to be bonded.

glennjanie · 03-14-2007, 10:43 PM

One more suggestion, Quattro:
You could move the wires from the sub-panel's vertical bar to the horizontal bar (grouping your bare ground wires again), then move that vertical bar over to the Master panel. That should give you sufficient spaces.
I still insist the green wire needs to go to the sub-panel horizontal bar.
I can see a large bare wire comming out of the master panel, possibly going out to the meter base and the ground rod.
Glenn

Quattro · 03-15-2007, 07:29 AM

I have been told over and over that the sub-panel ground and neutral should NOT be connected. The neutral floats in that panel, and is connected by #6 to the main panel neutral buss.

The main panel has a ground rod AND a bundled ground attached to the nearest copper pipe (which is connected to the rest of the copper pipe in the house).

Square Eye: how would I know if the main panel neutral buss is bonded or not? Thanks!

JoeD · 03-15-2007, 04:28 PM

The ground bus should be bonded to the metal of the panel box. There should not be a need to jumper the two busses together. If the original bus is not bonded then it was meant to be a neutral buss only and a ground bus should have been installed separately.

Quattro · 03-15-2007, 05:31 PM

If by "bonded" do you mean screwed to the panel with a long brass screw? In that case, it is bonded.

glennjanie · 03-16-2007, 01:06 PM

A bonded panel has a piece of rigid conduit through the side where your ground wire comes out and goes to the ground rod; there would be a bushing on that conduit that is screwed tight against the box and has a seperate hole on the side of it for the ground wire to go through, and a screw to tighten down on the wire. Its called a bonding bushing and it grounds the box independent of the grounding bar.
The connection to the sub-panel appears to be made of EMT conduit with connectors attached by a screw in the side of them. This is not acceptable for a grounding path between the two panels. Therefore, the green wire still needs to go from neutral/ground buss bar to the other neutral/ground buss bar.
Glenn

Square Eye · 03-17-2007, 08:28 AM

I suppose the same words could be interpreted many ways.

A newer main panel will have a Bonding screw included with it. Your panel may be have been manufactured before this was the case. The bonding screw passes through the neutral buss and attaches directly into the back of the panel. This is necessary at the main panel. The option is there to use this same panel as a sub-panel by not attaching the bonding screw. This leaves the neutral floating in the panel and requires a ground wire from the ground bar back to the main panel.

In your case.. I don't know wether your panel's neutral buss is bonded to the panel or not. It looks like an older panel and I really can't tell from here. A neutral jumper won't hurt a thing.

Quattro · 03-18-2007, 07:30 PM

Hey guys,

yes, the main panel is screwed to the back of the panel. It's a brass screw. I'm going to look around for a good place to mount that auxillary ground buss now!

AndyD5 · 03-29-2007, 08:01 PM

You're looking at an older style square D panel you are correct that each ground an neutral should have it's own screw position you can put in a secondary bus for the neutrals they have them that clamp ontop the existing or just screw right into the frame of the panel a branch circuit just needs grounding period it doesn't have to be grounded back to the main panel it can be grounded to a nearby fully functional coper water line anywhere in the house my branch box is ground clamped to the supply line to the toilet nearby. I don't know the codes there but here the water supply line is the ground in every house. the stranded heavy guage wire provides ground to the main panel.