DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Electrical and Wiring > GFCI outlets vs GFCI breakers





Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-31-2013, 09:52 AM  
Dzarate29
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Somonauk, IL
Posts: 6
Default GFCI outlets vs GFCI breakers

My home was built in 1958 with romex and ungrounded 2 prong outlets. We are currently upgrading the breaker box from 60 amp service with fuses to 100 amp service with breakers. It would be nearly impossible to rewire most of the outlets without major work. We are debating whether to use a GFCI outlet at the beginning of each circuit with regular ungrounded 3 prong outlets on the rest of the circuit, or just install ungrounded 3 prong outlets everywhere and use GFCI breakers in the breaker box. I know the GFCI breakers would be a decent amount more money, but might save time tracking down outlets in a circuit. Also, there are 2 GFCI outlets in the kitchen and 1 in the bathroom, if i went with the GFCI breakers would this cause a problem for these outlets? Thanks guys



__________________
Dzarate29 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-31-2013, 10:35 AM  
bud16415
Fixer Upper
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Erie Pa, Pa
Posts: 719
Liked 190 Times on 156 Posts
Likes Given: 70

Default

I stand corrected. There is no measurement between common and ground as I always assumed its only imbalance between hot and common. Sorry for confusion I had never wired one omitting the ground and or tested the down line circuit. Sorry for the misleading comment.



__________________

Last edited by bud16415; 10-31-2013 at 01:01 PM.
bud16415 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-31-2013, 11:54 AM  
JoeD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 888
Liked 77 Times on 65 Posts

Default

GFCI DOES NOT need the ground wire to work.
GFCI is a valid code compliant replacement for two wire ungrounded receptacles.

__________________
JoeD is offline  
3
People Like This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-31-2013, 12:31 PM  
CallMeVilla
Senior Member
 
CallMeVilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,062
Liked 268 Times on 218 Posts
Likes Given: 106

Default

Yes, multiple GFCIs on the same circuit ARE a problem. They will conflict with each other and give you trouble. If you go to GFCI breakers for GFCI circuits (kitchens and bathrooms), you would have to replace the GFCI receptacles with appropriate standard receptacles.

HOWEVER, you should be using AFCIs in the bedrooms and living spaces, not GFCIs Arc Fault Circuit Interruptors do a different job. Use them in the proper spaces.

For more: http://www.afcisafety.org/qa.html

__________________
CallMeVilla is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-31-2013, 01:50 PM  
JoeD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 888
Liked 77 Times on 65 Posts

Default

GFCI do not conflict with each as far preventing them from working. However it is useless to have one GFCI feeding another GFCI off the LOAD terminals since one can do the job. Also you never know for sure which one will trip and then you have go and check them all.

__________________
JoeD is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-01-2013, 08:54 AM  
bud16415
Fixer Upper
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Erie Pa, Pa
Posts: 719
Liked 190 Times on 156 Posts
Likes Given: 70

Default

In assuming wrongly that a GFCI used ground as a reference I read up a little on this and code compliance and some of the problems people have in using these as a method to upgrade an old wired home, I read that these outlets have to be labeled as “No Ground” Is this still a code requirement and do people follow it as I can’t ever remember seeing one marked. Another common complaint in favor of GFCI breakers is most circa 1950’s wiring was done octopus style running wire to light box and then off to outlets. I have seen this quite a bit. I also read there are some appliances code requires a ground. Not sure what those are or why. I know some electronics uses the ground wire as a discharge path also.

When wired this way I assume common testers won’t show the outlet as wired correctly or a GFCI tester won’t trigger it.

__________________
bud16415 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-01-2013, 11:32 AM  
JoeD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 888
Liked 77 Times on 65 Posts

Default

Any surge suppressor used on a non ground receptacle(GFCI or not) will likely indicate a fault. These devices rely on the ground to dissipate the surge.
No other device I know of requires the ground. It is only there for safety and the GFCI will provide that function.

Quote:
When wired this way I assume common testers won’t show the outlet as wired correctly or a GFCI tester won’t trigger it.
Correct. One of those plugin GFCI testers won't work. a home inspector will often call out the GFCI circuit as faulty when there in fact nothing wrong with it.


__________________
JoeD is offline  
inspectorD Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter DIY Home Repair Forum Replies Last Post
Some clarifications for kitchen outlets and GFCI condoowner Electrical and Wiring 26 07-01-2013 01:27 PM
Outside GFCI Troubleshooting Duane_Boldt Electrical and Wiring 11 09-29-2011 11:57 AM
Another GFCI Problem JohnPetrucci00 Electrical and Wiring 5 09-08-2011 03:09 PM
GFCI Outlets Outdoors/Garage SavvyCat Electrical and Wiring 9 05-04-2009 09:29 PM