DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum

DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum (http://www.houserepairtalk.com/forum.php)
-   Electrical and Wiring (http://www.houserepairtalk.com/f9/)
-   -   Moving 220v Appliance Cable? (http://www.houserepairtalk.com/f9/moving-220v-appliance-cable-17123/)

savatreatabvr 12-21-2013 08:33 AM

Moving 220v Appliance Cable?
 
I raised the ceiling in my kitchen and had all new cabinets installed a few months ago but now I need to move my 220v oven electrical cable over about 2'. This may be a stupid question but can I splice a new piece of cable into the existing cable with cut-in boxes and wire nuts or do I need special 220v electrical boxes and wire nuts? I looked online but couldn't find much info!

CallMeVilla 12-21-2013 09:02 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Yes, you can use a junction box for the splice to extend your 220V wring. You are not allowed to bury the box in the wall ... it must be accessible from the outside.

The splice is done with wire nuts and I would tape each of them too. Make sure you have appropriate connectors for the wire inside the box.

As to the cut-in box ... yes you can but I would use a deep two gang box because your typical 220v wiring needs the space. Obviously, it need a blank cover as well.

JoeD 12-21-2013 09:33 AM

If the cable is four wire including a ground you can extend it.
If it is only a three wire cable then you are not permitted to extend it by code. You need to replace the entire cable.

savatreatabvr 12-22-2013 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeD (Post 97516)
If the cable is four wire including a ground you can extend it.
If it is only a three wire cable then you are not permitted to extend it by code. You need to replace the entire cable.

That really bites but I do want to comply with all electrical codes! Is there a chance anybody knows WHY the 3 wire can't be spliced and the 4 wire can or do they not explain why in the code book?

Wuzzat? 12-22-2013 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by savatreatabvr (Post 97533)
That really bites but I do want to comply with all electrical codes! Is there a chance anybody knows WHY the 3 wire can't be spliced and the 4 wire can or do they not explain why in the code book?

Yeah, somebody knows why. Will they tell you? Not likely. Transparency for large, powerful organizations is hard to come by. :(

Physically this makes no sense to me. How do the splices know how many conductors the other splices are connecting?

Even if a splice failed you've got a metal box around it and you would see symptoms of a failing splice. When the appliance is off there is no current flow and so a splice failure is irrelevant.
And just like GFCI tests, once/month you could check ground conductor integrity.

If wirenuts make you nervous you could maybe use crimp type connectors. And an outer, much larger metal box with a smoke detector inside. :D

I doubt that the NFPA will explain their reasoning - I asked them about a related issue and their answer did not give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
And the 2014 Code changes seem to show that selling new hardware is the main thing, regardless of how much additional safety you get or don't get for each additional dollar spent. Not to mention all the false alarms with AFCIs and some GFCIs.

JoeD 12-22-2013 03:34 PM

Three wire appliance circuits such as stove and dryer, are no longer permitted. Existing three wire circuits are allowed to remain. However if you modify the circuit you need to bring it up to current code. Extending a circuit is considered modifying it.

If you can find a way to move the cable without extending it, then you can leave it.

Wuzzat? 12-23-2013 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeD (Post 97541)
Three wire appliance circuits such as stove and dryer, are no longer permitted. Existing three wire circuits are allowed to remain. However if you modify the circuit you need to bring it up to current code. Extending a circuit is considered modifying it.

If you can find a way to move the cable without extending it, then you can leave it.

Do you have a contact for someone knowledgeable in the Canadian Code?
I'd think they'd be more forthcoming about the workings of the code-making committees than the NFPA.
The IEEE sometimes does studies for these regulations but they want bucks for everything they put out, and I haven't been a member for quite a while.

nealtw 12-23-2013 05:24 PM

As I understand it, if you do anything with wires in the kitchen, then the whole kitchen has to be brought up to code.

JoeD 12-23-2013 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wuzzat? (Post 97564)
Do you have a contact for someone knowledgeable in the Canadian Code?

I do not. The code is issued and I follow it.

Wuzzat? 12-24-2013 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeD (Post 97574)
I do not. The code is issued and I follow it.

In that case I hope the Canadian code balances
safety vs. cost to the consumer
moreso than the NEC.

Some time ago the NEC required GFCIs in car washes even though there has never been an incident and I think the changes for 2014 take this even further, with GFCIs and AFCIs now required in many locations.

The NIST maintains standards for industry and science but AFAIK there is no "standard arc" (I asked them) so I wonder how the AFCI people even know if their devices work.
For go/no-go devices the benchmark is how many false positive and false negative responses these things produce. Both errors cannot be minimized at the same time and apparently the false positives are in the majority.

FUD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_u...inty_and_doubt
seems to sell the NEC as well as the AFCIs, and many other things to many people.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:21 AM.