DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Electrical and Wiring > Moving 220v Appliance Cable?




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-24-2013, 08:35 AM  
CallMeVilla
Contractor
 
CallMeVilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,254
Liked 381 Times on 298 Posts
Likes Given: 154

Default

I understand your frustration Wuzzat ... but the decision is binary if the Inspector is involved: "Follow the code or no check off."

If the Inspector is not involved and your license is on the line, what do you choose to do? If you are the homeowner in a DIY situation, can you decide to do what is cost effective, safe and NOT in strict compliance? Well, that is the question ....



__________________
CallMeVilla is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-24-2013, 09:56 AM  
Wuzzat?
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,328
Liked 167 Times on 154 Posts
Likes Given: 94

Default

This discussion has clarified this issue for me somewhat.
If a splice is OK in many situations it seems a contradiction to not allow it in this cable lengthening scenario. Orwell might call this "doublethink."

Yes, licensed tradespeople have to follow the code. Their job is held hostage.

I e-mailed Ideal Industries with questions about the contact resistance and reliability of their Wirenuts. We'll see what happens.

If you had a current carrying cable with no splices, one splices or up to X number of splices, at what value of X would you be able to detect that there even was one splice? This is a basement project for me after Christmas.

This brings up a testing issue for the DIYer. By measuring the voltage drop along the cable and the current drawn and comparing this V/I resistance value to the AWG table, he or she can measure the integrity of the splices as often as wanted.



__________________
Wuzzat? is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-24-2013, 10:42 AM  
CallMeVilla
Contractor
 
CallMeVilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,254
Liked 381 Times on 298 Posts
Likes Given: 154

Default

This also raises craftsmanship issues. Some sloppy work in splicing would have wires stuck into a wire nut, which is then twisted.

Proper procedure means twisting the conductors with a pair of lineman pliers to get a tight twist, then trimmed, before inseting into the wire nut. The nut is further twisted, then taped.

The first example might result in a much different reading from the second example, yes?

wire.jpg  
__________________
CallMeVilla is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-24-2013, 01:12 PM  
nealtw
Contractor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: vancouver, b.c.
Posts: 9,778
Liked 803 Times on 716 Posts
Likes Given: 1367

Default

It's not if the cable and splice will do the job, it is that the cable is no longer up to code, which is fine untill you work on it. Even a homeowner can run into problems with this when selling a house, if the buyer knows when the kitchen was updated and the home inspector catches it.

__________________
nealtw is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-24-2013, 09:08 PM  
JoeD
Contractor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 948
Liked 100 Times on 82 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

This thread is going off topic.
Twisting wire is NOT required when applying wire nuts.

__________________
JoeD is offline  
Parrothead Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-25-2013, 12:12 PM  
Wuzzat?
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,328
Liked 167 Times on 154 Posts
Likes Given: 94

Default

With more than two wires I've found that middle wires may not be clamped against the others properly. They remain straight.

In this situation I usually twist with pliers and then trim the ends to equal length.

Speaking of craftsmanship, a basement room job done by amateurs had a half volt extra voltage for the 20' or 30' length of #12 when I was pulling 10A through that branch and the tenant was complaining about flickering lights.
It was a wirenut with three wires with the center wire barely holding and straight.
A half volt at 10A is 5w, quite a bit of power to be dissipated in something as small as a wirenut.

The guy also had a three way switch arrangement and I insisted on testing all four combinations before they put the drop ceiling in place. Sure enough, it was only partially working.

There still may be some problems lurking in that place.



In some counties you can take an exam and then wire your own house to Code so you will save the labor cost.

And there are probably connectors way more reliable than Wirenuts that don't depend so much on operator skill, but maybe less convenient to work with.

__________________
Wuzzat? is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2013, 02:31 PM  
savatreatabvr
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 46
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuzzat? View Post
With more than two wires I've found that middle wires may not be clamped against the others properly. They remain straight.

In this situation I usually twist with pliers and then trim the ends to equal length.

Speaking of craftsmanship, a basement room job done by amateurs had a half volt extra voltage for the 20' or 30' length of #12 when I was pulling 10A through that branch and the tenant was complaining about flickering lights.
It was a wirenut with three wires with the center wire barely holding and straight.
A half volt at 10A is 5w, quite a bit of power to be dissipated in something as small as a wirenut.

The guy also had a three way switch arrangement and I insisted on testing all four combinations before they put the drop ceiling in place. Sure enough, it was only partially working.

There still may be some problems lurking in that place.



In some counties you can take an exam and then wire your own house to Code so you will save the labor cost.

And there are probably connectors way more reliable than Wirenuts that don't depend so much on operator skill, but maybe less convenient to work with.
If there are orange, yellow, red and blue wire nuts then what's connectors are used for larger gauge wire?
__________________
savatreatabvr is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2013, 04:02 PM  
Wuzzat?
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,328
Liked 167 Times on 154 Posts
Likes Given: 94

Default

http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=wire-nut&div=0&l1=twist-on&l2=wire-nut
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

There's another thing about extending cable lengths.
Let's say you have two wirenuts for each outlet in your house. By adding four more to your house total, how much is the safety of your house compromised?

Split bolt connectors (insulated?) are probably superior in terms of initial safety and safety over their lifetime.
__________________
Wuzzat? is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2013, 05:32 PM  
savatreatabvr
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 46
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuzzat? View Post
http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=wire-nut&div=0&l1=twist-on&l2=wire-nut
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

There's another thing about extending cable lengths.
Let's say you have two wirenuts for each outlet in your house. By adding four more to your house total, how much is the safety of your house compromised?

Split bolt connectors (insulated?) are probably superior in terms of initial safety and safety over their lifetime.
Thank you for the links although I don't trust "wikipedia.org" much do to the fact that anyone can edit the contents.
__________________
savatreatabvr is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-29-2013, 10:03 AM  
Wuzzat?
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,328
Liked 167 Times on 154 Posts
Likes Given: 94

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by savatreatabvr View Post
Thank you for the links although I don't trust "wikipedia.org" much do to the fact that anyone can edit the contents.
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=%22credibility+of+wikipedia%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


__________________
Wuzzat? is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter DIY Home Repair Forum Replies Last Post
Change from 220V to 110V (& Gas line install) staceybiomed Electrical and Wiring 3 05-30-2010 10:38 AM
Appliance Sales - Frequent or Not? epigirl General Appliance Discussion 11 03-18-2010 10:29 AM
2 post auto lift - 220v wiring Scot Clark Electrical and Wiring 14 01-19-2008 09:56 AM
Anyway to plug a 220v into a 110v outlet? GBjay General Home Improvement Discussion 4 08-17-2007 12:39 PM
Why won't our appliance lights last? Doug Fir General Appliance Discussion 3 02-04-2007 06:40 AM