DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Electrical and Wiring > Question...Replaceing Receptacles With Duplex Style





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Old 01-10-2011, 06:47 PM  
nealtw
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Speedy

What is your point. What are your suggestions for mjr or is it your intention to show people how smart you are. I believe in 1956 it was pretty common to ground the main to incoming water lines when water lines were steel. When people hooked fans and things t6hey looked around for the nearest ground they could find and it was often copper pipe and no it wasn't code but it worked.
To your point about the balance that the gfi uses to trigger. Is there any way it will be out of balance with out ground being involved, whether it be the copper wire or the water you are standing in. With that said the gfi would protect you without a ground wire but you could not test it.



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Old 01-10-2011, 09:47 PM  
nealtw
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Electrical installation- Converting from 2 to 3 prong receptacles


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Old 01-11-2011, 04:40 AM  
speedy petey
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Speedy

What is your point. What are your suggestions for mjr or is it your intention to show people how smart you are.
Normally I don't reply to stupid statements like this, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
No, that is not my intent. My intent is clear up myths and erroneous information people give out.




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I believe in 1956 it was pretty common to ground the main to incoming water lines when water lines were steel. When people hooked fans and things t6hey looked around for the nearest ground they could find and it was often copper pipe and no it wasn't code but it worked.
Really, it worked? How can you be sure?
It WAS code for a while to ground to water pipes. This is when ALL water pipes were metallic and workmanship was something to be proud of.
It has not been allowed to simply ground to a water pipe for many years now except under certain circumstances. Even then it is only allowed within the first 5' of where a pipe enters the house. I can provide the code text if you like.
The allowance was removed from the code because people were getting hurt and killed and houses were burning down due to fault current doing some very bad things on it's way back to the source. High resistance connections, joints and pipe sections create a LOT of heat. Also, broken pipe runs and open joints create breaks in the current path causing sections of pipe to become live with voltage.
The suggesting to ground to a cast vent stack is absolutely absurd.




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To your point about the balance that the gfi uses to trigger. Is there any way it will be out of balance with out ground being involved,
Yes.

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...whether it be the copper wire or the water you are standing in. With that said the gfi would protect you without a ground wire but you could not test it.
You could not externally test it, but the internal test button DOES work. Just ask anyone who has a compliant installation of an ungrounded GFI where a home inspector has flagged it as a defect, simply because his little plug-in tester did not work.
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:43 AM  
speedy petey
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That illustration is very misleading. Just because you get a neon test light to work from hot to the box DOES NOT mean that there is a valid and safe form of grounding path.
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:07 AM  
crazyotter
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Hi all,
This is my first post in this board! I have been a lurker for some time, bookmarking pages, searching for answers (finding almost all of them) and enjoying the good info. I wanted to reply to this post as I had the same issue in the attic of the house we just bought. We knew the electric was not up to code, the house was built in 1924 and we have k & t in the downstairs and the attic is a bunch of who knows what. When we bought the house we brought in an Electrician, he took two minutes and then said abandon this work and start over, in the attic only. Seems the k & t was fine, but one of the previous owners had decided to tackle the attic project, from this point forward I shall refer to that owner as the butcher!
Anyway, just today I was removing knee walls and getting behind them to plan for the new wiring and I found a ground attached to the vent pipe from the downstairs bathroom! I called our electrician to tell him and he wants a picture so he can put it in his scrap book! He also said it is very dangerous!
Anyway, just my
Terry
Thanks for all the great info!

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Old 01-21-2011, 08:14 AM  
joecaption
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Want to add instant resale value and safety to that house? Concider getting the power upgraded and the whole house rewired. The power company in most cases will run a new line from the pole to the house for free that can handle the load on a modern house, Then an electrition can change out that old fuse box and upgrade the old wiring.
You will be shocked (no pun intended) by all the burned up, over heated insulation, bare wires they will find behind those walls.
A modern home needs a min. of 200 amps. How many does your have?

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Old 01-21-2011, 02:13 PM  
speedy petey
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The power company in most cases will run a new line from the pole to the house for free that can handle the load on a modern house,.....
Actually in most cases they simply leave what is there.
They own and maintain the over head drop so they replace it at their discretion.
Even if you ask for it to be replaced, many times they will check it out and if it is in sound shape they'll leave it.


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