DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Electrical and Wiring > rewiring to fix open ground?




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-17-2013, 08:50 AM  
CallMeVilla
Contractor
 
CallMeVilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,250
Liked 380 Times on 298 Posts
Likes Given: 154

Default

Nice video ... So the simple, temporary solution might be an exterior ground (insulated, not bare) that goes back into the basement to the main panel.

Can you do that?

PS The insulation protects dogs from doing something stupid.



dog.jpg  
__________________
CallMeVilla is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-17-2013, 11:14 AM  
Brandon_Hanley
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 19
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeVilla View Post
Nice video ... So the simple, temporary solution might be an exterior ground (insulated, not bare) that goes back into the basement to the main panel.

Can you do that?

PS The insulation protects dogs from doing something stupid.
there is already an exterior ground rod connected to one of the panels. problem is i have 2 pannels, one newer looking panel with lots of flip switch breakers that are poorly labled in the basement, and one old panel with 4-5 fuse sort of things that screw in and are shaped like corks that is mounted to what used to be an exterior wall before the additional room was built on.

it kind of seems like the newer panel was used as a sort of sub panel running off of the old panel.


__________________
Brandon_Hanley is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-17-2013, 11:15 AM  
Wuzzat?
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,328
Liked 167 Times on 154 Posts
Likes Given: 94

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeD View Post
A ground is not the solution. The ground wire needs to go back to the panel. where the neutral and ground are bonded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNZC782SzAQ&noredirect=1
Can he legitimately run a buried heavy wire outside that joins a new rod to the other rod that grounds the panel? Depending on the conductor sizes & lengths it might be safe and code compliant.

Can he legitimately run ground wires on the building exterior surface to the load center?

Thanks for the video. I'll study it.
I know Mr. Holt makes a fortune teaching this stuff but as an electrical/electronic engineer I find his interpretation of the behavior of electrons to be a bit bizarre, at times.
But he's rich and I'm not. . .

On the plus side, he seems to be surprised at some of the latest code changes. And so am I.
__________________

Last edited by Wuzzat?; 12-17-2013 at 11:21 AM.
Wuzzat? is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-17-2013, 11:57 AM  
CallMeVilla
Contractor
 
CallMeVilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,250
Liked 380 Times on 298 Posts
Likes Given: 154

Default

My last post on this ... I would suggest running an insulated ground wire inside water tight conduit from the upstairs room ... run it outside then kick it inside to the basement ... connect to the NEW box. This ground would give you a temporary ground until you can rewire the house

Relatively inexpensive, efficient, and properly done.

Gotta get back to work ...

bad.jpg  
__________________
CallMeVilla is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-17-2013, 12:18 PM  
Brandon_Hanley
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 19
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

on another note i just tried to pull the outlet in question for photos and i couldnt get it out far enough to get a good photo but it doesnt look like the knob and tube that goes through alot of the house. it looks like its got the plastic coating on, 2 black connected to one side of the outlet and 2 white to the other, there is also 2 bare peices of copper wire that looks like it comes out of the same outer plastic coating as the other wires and it connects to the metal box holding the outlet.

not sure what that means since i thought that would mean its grounded but its giving me the problems with amps and the tester says its open ground.

any ideas there?

ill try to get some photos loaded of the 3 (found another one) panel boxes and some other stuff later today.

__________________
Brandon_Hanley is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-17-2013, 01:59 PM  
Wuzzat?
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,328
Liked 167 Times on 154 Posts
Likes Given: 94

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon_Hanley View Post
on another note i just tried to pull the outlet in question for photos and i couldnt get it out far enough to get a good photo but it doesnt look like the knob and tube that goes through alot of the house. it looks like its got the plastic coating on, 2 black connected to one side of the outlet and 2 white to the other, there is also 2 bare peices of copper wire that looks like it comes out of the same outer plastic coating as the other wires and it connects to the metal box holding the outlet.

not sure what that means since i thought that would mean its grounded but its giving me the problems with amps and the tester says its open ground.

any ideas there?

ill try to get some photos loaded of the 3 (found another one) panel boxes and some other stuff later today.
Put a 120 v bulb in a pigtail socket from the H/W store and go between
the black and white - bulb lights?
the black and bare - bulb lights?
the white and bare - bulb lights?
__________________
Wuzzat? is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-17-2013, 02:59 PM  
Brandon_Hanley
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 19
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuzzat? View Post
Put a 120 v bulb in a pigtail socket from the H/W store and go between
the black and white - bulb lights?
the black and bare - bulb lights?
the white and bare - bulb lights?
would a multi meter or test light work for this or does it have to be the bulb/pigtail?
__________________
Brandon_Hanley is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-17-2013, 03:47 PM  
Wuzzat?
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,328
Liked 167 Times on 154 Posts
Likes Given: 94

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon_Hanley View Post
would a multi meter or test light work for this or does it have to be the bulb/pigtail?
Better a big incand. bulb, to eliminate phantom voltages.
Putting a meter across the bulb will give you even more info about the integrity of the connections in your house.

If you have a metal cold water pipe entering your house and a long skinny extension cord, carefully measure

Black to white - should be within 5% or 10% of 120v
black to bare - should be within 5% or 10% of 120v
black to pipe entry point - should be within 5% or 10% of 120v
white to bare - less than one or two volts
white to pipe entry point - less than one or two volts
bare to pipe entry point - zero
__________________
Wuzzat? is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-18-2013, 06:08 AM  
bud16415
Fixer Upper
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Erie Pa, Pa
Posts: 1,132
Liked 322 Times on 256 Posts
Likes Given: 106

Default

I’m far from an expert on audio related problems. That being said your hum sounds more like one being caused by a ground issue than the lack of ground or poor ground with noise on it. I would try a thing called a ground lift adapter as an experiment and see if the issue improved. Most places don’t call them that what they are is the cheater plug adapter to use a three prong plug and old two prong outlet. They are only about $1 at any hardware store.

I run all my audio thru an Uninterrupted power supply that has power conditioning also and that seemed to solve a lot of similar issues. If you have access to one that might be something to try also.

That’s my two cents for what it’s worth.

__________________
bud16415 is online now  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-18-2013, 03:59 PM  
Wuzzat?
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,328
Liked 167 Times on 154 Posts
Likes Given: 94

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeD View Post
A ground rod is not the solution. The ground wire needs to go back to the panel. where the neutral and ground are bonded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNZC782SzAQ&noredirect=1
By turning off the sound until the slides came up I was able to tolerate this gentleman for almost the whole time. I especially cannot stand the hand-waving.

BTW, interestingly enough, although I study body language (it never lies), I have never looked up the official meaning of hand waving. Maybe because where I hang out nobody waves their hands like that.

In my opinion:
He sometimes gives either-or answers to things that are more complex and so those answers are, I believe, wrong. Some of the last slides appear to fall into this category and appear to contradict earlier slides.

I don't doubt that he is popular, and probably no person is harmed by following his advice. Misinformed maybe, but not harmed.

Can this gentleman sue me for libel? Only if he can prove damages, that people actually read what I post and believed me and he lost business as a result.
How do I know this?
Because an electrician on another forum defamed me all over the place, I knew what county he was licensed in and I seriously considered making an example of this disgruntled person by suing him for defamation & libel.
So I consulted lawyers, in return for any electrical advice they might need.
I find out that since he never posted my real name I had no case. He only defamed my forum name.

That dead dog story was an anecdote. Science cannot base itself on anecdotes, or on faith, or on matters of opinion, or on hearsay.
Maybe he likes dogs. He once compared stray voltages to stray dogs.


__________________

Last edited by Wuzzat?; 12-18-2013 at 04:14 PM.
Wuzzat? is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter DIY Home Repair Forum Replies Last Post
Problem with Open Ground Outlets cmyers1007 Electrical and Wiring 11 06-30-2014 09:26 AM
Converting a staircase from open on 1 side, to open on 2 sides. frozensneaker Carpentry and Woodworking 5 11-17-2013 01:53 PM
Open Ground david542 Electrical and Wiring 12 03-07-2012 11:20 AM
i have an open ground.. mundo Electrical and Wiring 3 05-15-2011 07:35 AM
Open Ground Outlets xiolo Electrical and Wiring 5 10-12-2008 11:06 PM