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Old 12-19-2013, 06:36 AM  
bud16415
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Seams there are devices made just for this purpose, the one I see most in googling this is called a (Hum X) it’s a filter designed to eliminate ground loop. And what you may want to buy if my above suggested test does prove to show you indeed have a ground loop condition. The links below are some interesting reads on the subject, and point out a potential danger in playing your instrument without a ground long term. The last one has an interesting concept of using a ground fault outlet, wired as if being used in a circuit without a ground wire. Others may comment on that solution and the safety of that. Could a guy make a short extension cord with a two prong plug on one end and a GFCI outlet on the other in a box and get an acceptable level of safety while eliminating the ground loop? That I don’t know. I know they make short adapters with GFCI built in them that have three prong plugs and carry the ground thru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBEvnSmXc84

http://www.harmonycentral.com/t5/Guitars-and-Amps/Banish-Ground-Loop-Hum/ba-p/34633804

http://www.epanorama.net/documents/groundloop/problem_solving.html



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Old 12-19-2013, 07:49 AM  
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i've thought of getting something like that but the humx and other similar devices only get rid of the hum but still risk shock and the gfci outlets only fix the risk of shock. i'd like to get rid of both.



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Old 12-19-2013, 07:55 AM  
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quoted from HERE

Quote:
OPEN GROUND receptacles indicate that the bare copper wire in the sheathed cable is not connected to the green
screw on the receptacle.
It also occurs frequently in older homes originally wired with a 2-wire system (knob and
tube or duplex wiring) where an upgrades has included a 3-prong receptacle. This is an unsafe practice and does
not comply with current Electrical Codes – which requires that original and replacement outlet be grounded correctly.

In some installations, the ground (bare copper) wire may have been connected to the metal receptacle box in which
case some homeowners use an adapter connected to the cover screw of the outlet to achieve ground. This is an
unreliable method and is against most Electrical Codes.
my ground is only hooked to the metal box behind this outlet, could my problem be as simple as unhooking it from the metal outlet box and attatching it to a green screw on the outlet or am i missing something
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Old 12-19-2013, 08:15 AM  
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also what is the trick to getting the outlet out to work on it? either the wire is too short or it wont pull through the back of the box. while trying to get it out far enough to show the wires behind it i've tried everything short of putting both feet on the wall and pulling on the outlet with both hands like a cartoon. i did get it out far enough that i could see the ground is connected to the top and bottom of the metal outlet box and that white wires are connected to both silver screws on the outlet and black wires connected to both brass colored screws. and there is a green screw like the quote above mentions with nothing attatched to it

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Old 12-19-2013, 10:36 AM  
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Sometimes older wiring or some electricians seemed to really scrimp on the wire length. Some of the older boxes were not as deep and the kept the wires short making them harder to work on. You have two blacks and two whites that means one black and white are feeding the box from someplace (could be another outlet) and the other pair is going off to feed something else. The bare wires are the ground the white is the common and the black is hot. The ground wires should be joined together in a way that connects them both to the box and also that green screw on the outlet. That green screw goes internally to the bigger round ground prong hole in the outlet.

Sounds like the outlet isn’t grounded at this point but you have wires in there to try grounding it with. If that’s the case you are using it now without a ground and the noise isn’t a ground loop of any kind I described.

After turning off the power and if you are going to take it apart to get in there and work figure out what black wire is the power to the box and mark it for future reference. You might have to take the wires off powered down and then carefully have them apart turn the power on and check with your meter for the hot black wire. Then shut the power back off. There should be a clamp in the back holding the wires and you may be able to get a little more length if you loosen that clamp. The ground wire and the common should be the same potential with the hot black wire when testing. Get a piece of green or bare wire and fix the grounds up like they are supposed to be and give it a try again.

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Old 12-19-2013, 11:13 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
Sometimes older wiring or some electricians seemed to really scrimp on the wire length. Some of the older boxes were not as deep and the kept the wires short making them harder to work on. You have two blacks and two whites that means one black and white are feeding the box from someplace (could be another outlet) and the other pair is going off to feed something else. The bare wires are the ground the white is the common and the black is hot. The ground wires should be joined together in a way that connects them both to the box and also that green screw on the outlet. That green screw goes internally to the bigger round ground prong hole in the outlet.

Sounds like the outlet isn’t grounded at this point but you have wires in there to try grounding it with. If that’s the case you are using it now without a ground and the noise isn’t a ground loop of any kind I described.

After turning off the power and if you are going to take it apart to get in there and work figure out what black wire is the power to the box and mark it for future reference. You might have to take the wires off powered down and then carefully have them apart turn the power on and check with your meter for the hot black wire. Then shut the power back off. There should be a clamp in the back holding the wires and you may be able to get a little more length if you loosen that clamp. The ground wire and the common should be the same potential with the hot black wire when testing. Get a piece of green or bare wire and fix the grounds up like they are supposed to be and give it a try again.
ok i went for another look and yes i have 2 seperate sets of wires. not sure what it would be feeding, this is the only outlet in the room.

the grounds are not touching each other, one is connected to the clamp at the top and one to the clamp at the bottom of the metal box.

couple of questions

1. do i need to use any special gauge or type of wire? im pretty sure i have some 12-2 laying around if that will work.

2 can i leave the insulation on it?

3. do i need to connect the wire i add to both ground wires or just fasten it in with one since both are connected to the box?
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:15 AM  
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is the forum unavailable for anyone else? i kept getting error messages for the past few minutes

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Old 12-19-2013, 12:30 PM  
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Yes, the site was down for a bit of time this morning. All is better now!

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Old 12-19-2013, 12:50 PM  
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By code the wire is to be bare or green for ground. Just twist them all together good and or connect them with a wire nut and run one to the green screw on the outlet. I’m not 100% sure how your local code calls for it to be done. But they all need to be together and one to the outlet and one to the box if it is a steel box. Plastic gets no ground wire.

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Old 12-19-2013, 01:06 PM  
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found a section of the same type of bare copper used for the grounds behind the outlet while waiting for a reply, now i just need to find some monster sized wire nuts and try to figure out how to shut the power off only to that room, so i dont have the woman and kids bugging me asking when ill turn the power back on every 5 minutes.



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