DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Electrical and Wiring > Romex Vs THHN in condtioned area




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-22-2013, 11:36 AM  
gottodo1
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 97
Liked 10 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default Romex Vs THHN in condtioned area

I moved to ND and opened up a wall today and I saw THHN used in the wall with no conduit. There's no THHN at the breaker panel so he must have spliced it somewhere? I found a forum that said you had to use THHN in a conduit even interior to a home because of section 300.3(a). I no longer have access to the NEC so I was wondering if someone could find that and put it on here.

My next questions are, can you have THHN run into a break panel?
To meet code, do you really have to use conduit on THHN interior to a house (in floor joists), for wiring to fans and outlets and the such?
What possible reason is there to have conduit on the THHN when you don't on Romex?
Is there any type of wrap on conduit that would satisfy the could I might be able to put on after the fact, maybe like a tape?? or maybe something like http://www.directindustry.com/prod/hellermanntyton-usa/corrugated-wiring-protective-conduits-31061-653667.html

Does anyone know of a free site I could access the NEC?



__________________

10/1/11: Bought the perfect house;11/1/12: 10k & 200 hours into the perfect house; Floors are done and cutting up the cement for the new bathroom that wasn't actually plumbed like the seller said it was; 8/1/13: 30k & 400 hours into the perfect house that only needed new carpet and a coat of paint...
12/1/13: 35k & 500 hours I hope it ends soon
02/1/14: 37k & 550 hours and the inside may be finished soon.


Last edited by gottodo1; 08-22-2013 at 12:00 PM.
gottodo1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-22-2013, 04:16 PM  
JoeD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 920
Liked 88 Times on 73 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gottodo1 View Post

My next questions are, can you have THHN run into a break panel?
Yes if you use conduit.
Quote:
To meet code, do you really have to use conduit on THHN interior to a house (in floor joists), for wiring to fans and outlets and the such?
Yes THHN must always be in conduit.
Quote:
What possible reason is there to have conduit on the THHN when you don't on Romex?
It needs protection. NM cable has the outer jacket for protection.
Quote:
Is there any type of wrap on conduit that would satisfy the could I might be able to put on after the fact, maybe like a tape?? or maybe something like http://www.directindustry.com/prod/hellermanntyton-usa/corrugated-wiring-protective-conduits-31061-653667.html
There is no wrap on system that will satisfy code.
Quote:

Does anyone know of a free site I could access the NEC?


__________________
JoeD is offline  
kok328 Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-22-2013, 08:16 PM  
nealtw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: vancouver, b.c.
Posts: 8,984
Liked 687 Times on 615 Posts
Likes Given: 1210

Default

http://www.psknight.com/
__________________
nealtw is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2013, 05:50 AM  
kok328
Supporting Member
HRT_SUPPORTER.png
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Grand Blanc, MI
Posts: 2,147
Liked 95 Times on 84 Posts
Likes Given: 60

Default

I don't know that NEC access is free anywhere.
It's also hard to pinpoint particular situations in plain English.

__________________
kok328 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2013, 06:33 AM  
bud16415
Fixer Upper
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Erie Pa, Pa
Posts: 944
Liked 269 Times on 215 Posts
Likes Given: 96

Default

A Google search shows that the NFPA makes the NEC code available on line to “enhancing public safety” as they put it.

http://www.electricalcodecoalition.org/free-nec-access.aspx

http://www.nfpa.org/freeaccess

http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/document-information-pages?mode=code&code=70

I haven’t signed in or made a logon so I’m only going by what the web page says they have. If it is all on there and free let us know how it works out.

Here is another source that has PDF files in bulk for download. It looks like it has the 2008 NEC the file is huge so will take some time to download.

https://bulk.resource.org/codes.gov/

__________________

Last edited by bud16415; 08-23-2013 at 06:44 AM.
bud16415 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2013, 08:55 AM  
bud16415
Fixer Upper
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Erie Pa, Pa
Posts: 944
Liked 269 Times on 215 Posts
Likes Given: 96

Default

Ok I was bored and had some time on my hand and downloaded NEC 2008 from the bulk center. The file took about 15 minutes over a very fast connection to get 127M file size.

Kok328 is correct it’s hard to “pinpoint particular situations in plain English” you asked about 300.3 A and this is what it says.

Reading along I didn’t see any mention of combining wires to make a cable and most of the logic behind wanting cables was about keeping branches together. They do talk about white and gray being the colors of the combined cables. Hope this helps. I saved the PDF to my computer and it’s an easy access now.

300.3 Conductors.
(A) Single Conductors. Single conductors specified in
Table 310. shall only be installed where part of a
recognized wiring method of Chapter 3.
Exception: Individual conductors shall be permitted where
installed as separate overhead conductors in accordance
with 225.6.
(B) Conductors of the Same Circuit. All conductors of
the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor
and all equipment grounding conductors and bonding conductors
shall be contained within the same raceway, auxiliary
gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or
cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with
300.3(B)(l) through (B)(4).
(1) Paralleled Installations. Conductors shall be permitted
to be run in parallel in accordance with the provisions
of 31004. The requirement to run all circuit conductors
within the same raceway, auxiliary gutter, cable tray,
trench, cable, or cord shall apply separately to each portion
of the paralleled installation, and the equipment grounding
conductors shall comply with the provisions of 250.122.
Parallel runs in cable tray shall comply with the provisions
of 392.8(D).

__________________
bud16415 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2013, 10:20 AM  
gottodo1
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 97
Liked 10 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Was it to code to run THHN without conduit in 1996 or anytime in the 90's for that matter?

Neal, Fortunately I don't live in Canada though darn close, so I don't think those books will help a whole lot.

Joe D, thanks for the reply that's what I figured but I always like to ask dumb questions and see how many dumb answers I get.

JoeD, THHN does have protection like romex with an outer jacket. THHN is almost always (and is in this case) THWN so it has an outer jacket to protect the inner jacket material. WHICH makes it superior to Romex because it's more rot resistant. I would think in a basement that would be a good thing?*

Bud, thanks for the posting, that did answer what I was looking for and explains how he spliced it, but without conduit I doubt it's correct... Unfortunately for me back in 1996 either conduit wasn't required in housing with THHN cabling or the previous owner didn't care and just ran it the wrong way when he finished the basement. He ran an outlet outside to the garden so I'm assuming he bought 500' of it and then just decided to use it to finish his basement when he ran out of Romex... so sad.

__________________

10/1/11: Bought the perfect house;11/1/12: 10k & 200 hours into the perfect house; Floors are done and cutting up the cement for the new bathroom that wasn't actually plumbed like the seller said it was; 8/1/13: 30k & 400 hours into the perfect house that only needed new carpet and a coat of paint...
12/1/13: 35k & 500 hours I hope it ends soon
02/1/14: 37k & 550 hours and the inside may be finished soon.


Last edited by gottodo1; 08-23-2013 at 10:24 AM.
gottodo1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2013, 10:35 AM  
bud16415
Fixer Upper
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Erie Pa, Pa
Posts: 944
Liked 269 Times on 215 Posts
Likes Given: 96

Default

I’m sure that happened also. Lots of people are finding a roll of wire at a garage sale or something left over etc. and using it up because wire is so expensive now.

In my old house the #10 wire going to the garage (not attached) went underground from the house. It was single strand braded like your THHN and pulled thru a garden hose and buried. I’m pretty sure that didn’t meet code but it worked for many years.

What you have is a modern version of knob and tube without the knobs and the tubes. If you don’t want it I think it would be easier to pull new than try and add the conduit.

__________________
bud16415 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-23-2013, 05:07 PM  
nealtw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: vancouver, b.c.
Posts: 8,984
Liked 687 Times on 615 Posts
Likes Given: 1210

Default

http://www.electricwiring.com/WS/wiring.html
__________________
nealtw is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-24-2013, 05:38 AM  
JoeD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 920
Liked 88 Times on 73 Posts

Default

It was never code to run THHN without conduit except when knob and tube was allowed.



__________________
JoeD is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter DIY Home Repair Forum Replies Last Post
New to area and little confused gottodo1 Electrical and Wiring 7 04-16-2013 11:02 AM
Nm-b romex run outdoors alexb5647 Electrical and Wiring 24 03-11-2013 10:17 AM
connecting old BX cable to new romex wiring drewdin Electrical and Wiring 6 01-02-2013 12:01 PM
2 questions - vanity light and romex with no power rando Electrical and Wiring 5 05-27-2008 06:27 AM
Romex Routing in Attic 69-er Electrical and Wiring 3 02-19-2007 02:40 PM