DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Electrical and Wiring > Some clarifications for kitchen outlets and GFCI




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-25-2013, 11:23 AM  
condoowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 135
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nealtw View Post
If you take the cover off the breaker panel you will see that the black goes to one breaker and red goes to the one beside it.
The only reason they do that is to save wire they both are separete cercuits but use the same white and ground and if you do it wrong you could have 240 volt to one plug and yes that would not be code but using properly is not against code.
Ok so if I was to install the normal outlets with broken tabs would it be ok?


__________________
condoowner is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 11:33 AM  
nealtw
Contractor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: vancouver, b.c.
Posts: 9,740
Liked 796 Times on 710 Posts
Likes Given: 1358

Default

I'm not sure they still do that but you can wire this with 4 gfis outlet, each on it's own cercuit.
Not sure how you could split and use gfis.



multiple_split_receptacle_wiring_diagram.jpg  
__________________
nealtw is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 11:42 AM  
condoowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 135
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

I think you may be right Neal.. Now the GFCI I purchased are not good for this configuration... According to Cooper's instructions, the outlet has 4 terminal screws. The top ones are for the LINE (power source, say the main panel), and the bottom screws are for the LOAD (to feed something else).

Naturally left screws are white for neutral while right screws (brass colored) are for hot wires.

Lets say I am wiring the RED circuit (assuming you are right and they wired outlets independently as 2 circuits, red & black), then I would connect the red wire to the LINE hot terminal screw and the white neutral to the LINE white terminal screw. Simple enough, but what do I do with the black hot wire from the "black" circuit? The only terminal screw left on the hot side of the outlet is on the LOAD which is to feed another location..

img_0932-1.jpg  
__________________
condoowner is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 12:01 PM  
nealtw
Contractor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: vancouver, b.c.
Posts: 9,740
Liked 796 Times on 710 Posts
Likes Given: 1358

Default

Have you opened the panel to see if I was right, that would be first.

__________________
nealtw is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 12:07 PM  
bud16415
Fixer Upper
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Erie Pa, Pa
Posts: 1,120
Liked 322 Times on 256 Posts
Likes Given: 106

Default

The reason you see no power at E & D is they are the load side and are not yet connected. I would assume the load was run using red to maybe show it different. If I understand correct there are 3 points where you are measuring power, a black wire at A, B, C

I highly doubt they ran 220 into a switch box and broke the two into two legs there each 110. If that was the case you would have power to measure on the red wires also. Do you show power at the red wires when everything is not connected?

__________________
bud16415 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 12:09 PM  
condoowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 135
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nealtw View Post
Have you opened the panel to see if I was right, that would be first.
100% right!

I even wired the standard outlets with broken tabs between red & black wires and all is fine!! I was also right with my purple lines on the first sketch.

Location A feeds E, while C feeds D.

Now I just need to figure out how to install a GFCI outlet on a 2 circuit electric box....
__________________
condoowner is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 12:20 PM  
condoowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 135
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

Just to wrap up so far, I made a sketch of what Ive found to be so far.. Basically Circuits 1 & 2 are identical, one outlet feeding another.. Circuit 3 is similar but has only one outlet explaining why it has only one 14/3 and not two like the others..

All outlets are working fine, breakers not tripping, only the two green outlets now I need to install GFCI's on them..

elec3.jpg  
__________________
condoowner is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 12:26 PM  
nealtw
Contractor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: vancouver, b.c.
Posts: 9,740
Liked 796 Times on 710 Posts
Likes Given: 1358

Default

Yes your sketch is right for a split system
For 4 gfis do this
In box A join the two reds together with a wire nut, join the two whites togther and add 6" white pigtail and wire nut them.
The white pig tail and the black go to the gfi line screws, put a wire nut on the extra black
In box E wire nut the black wire and red and white go the line screws of the gfi

__________________

Last edited by nealtw; 06-25-2013 at 12:30 PM.
nealtw is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 01:44 PM  
nealtw
Contractor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: vancouver, b.c.
Posts: 9,740
Liked 796 Times on 710 Posts
Likes Given: 1358

Default

You may have spoiled the first one you hooked up, it blew the main because you had a 240 volt dead short thru the outlet.

Bud & Villa This was standard in the 60s and 70s so you could plug a toaster and tea kettle at the same staion with out blowing a cercuit, that's likely why they went to 20 amp plugs when the gfis came in.

__________________
nealtw is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-26-2013, 05:24 AM  
bud16415
Fixer Upper
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Erie Pa, Pa
Posts: 1,120
Liked 322 Times on 256 Posts
Likes Given: 106

Default

Good call Neal and I have not ran across such a power feed setup before. I guess too many old houses for me. You learn something every day.

Is this still common to wire this way? Personally I wouldn’t care for the 220 potential on adjacent screws on an outlet.

In the OP’s last sketch he shows a standard outlet then feeding a GFI outlet. Is that correct? The first outlet doesn’t then have GF protection? He passes the 220V on to that GFI outlet is this a 220V GFI made just to do this?



__________________
bud16415 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter DIY Home Repair Forum Replies Last Post
How many GFCI's do I need in a kitchen? PKLehmer Electrical and Wiring 7 07-09-2009 09:09 AM
GFCI Outlets Outdoors/Garage SavvyCat Electrical and Wiring 9 05-04-2009 09:29 PM
How many electrical outlets for a new kitchen? phreaq General Home Improvement Discussion 5 09-28-2007 02:09 PM