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-   -   Wiring workshop (http://www.houserepairtalk.com/f9/wiring-workshop-14797/)

matt_vo 09-25-2012 07:07 AM

Wiring workshop
 
Hi all,
Was wondering if this is possible/permitted.
I'd like to wire my garage to power some woodworking tools and add receptacles. I'd like to have a couple 20 Amp 110V receptacles, and a 20 Amp 220V receptacle to power a table saw. My main panel is around 30 ft away. I know I need 12 gauge wire.

Can I run a single 12/3 wire from my panel to my workshop, on two individual 20 amp 110v breakers, bridged with those metal clips, and then split it so I get receptacles running on 110V with 1 hot and 1 neutral routed to one breaker, and have the 220V receptacle with 2 hots routed to both breakers? I read somewhere on the interwebs someone doing just that. Seems logical.

Thanks in advance.
Matt

CallMeVilla 09-25-2012 08:26 AM

2 Attachment(s)
You are better served by installng a small subpanel. This will allow you to have your circuit breakers set up for 110VAC and 220VAC without splitting the single wire. I recently did this in a garage to install receptacles, overhead lights, an in-wall AC unit, dust collector, and power for a large table saw. All went well.

matt_vo 09-25-2012 05:16 PM

Hey,
Thanks for the suggestion and pictures, but I think installing a smaller subpanel is more than what I need. It would cost more and take more time to install. All I need are a couple of receptacles to power my tools. And my main panel isn't that far away so if a breaker trips I won't mind walking a little more to it.
It's a small, weekend workshop/garage.
So to come back to my question, is what I suggested feasible, and if so, permitted by code?

Thanks again!
Matt

joecaption 09-25-2012 05:33 PM

Sorry Matt big mistake.
Been through this a hundred times with customers.
They all say all I needs is a few outlet, then they start adding more stiff, needing 220 volts, running a vacuum at the same time as a saw to collect the dust, garage door opener, more outside lights ECT..
Now all the money you spent on wire is down the toilet and you have to redo the whole thing just to up size the wire.
Doing it right once is far cheaper.
Those panels are not all that expencive.

Wuzzat? 09-26-2012 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joecaption (Post 77497)
Sorry Matt big mistake.
Been through this a hundred times with customers.
They all say all I needs is a few outlet, then they start adding more stiff, needing 220 volts, running a vacuum at the same time as a saw to collect the dust, garage door opener, more outside lights ECT..
Now all the money you spent on wire is down the toilet and you have to redo the whole thing just to up size the wire.
Doing it right once is far cheaper.
Those panels are not all that expencive.

How many of those customers are happy without the upgrade?

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt_vo (Post 77494)
All I need. . .
It's a small, weekend workshop/garage.

What is the labor time & parts cost for two or more NEC compliant options?

How likely is it that you will want to upgrade for your occasional use workshop?
After how long?

How much trouble & $ is it to upgrade if you don't go with the subpanel?

nealtw 09-26-2012 05:30 PM

Matt: I'll just pile on with everyone else. As soon as you start working in the shop you will want something else, you know "guys and there toys". And no I don't think what you want to do is code.

CallMeVilla 09-26-2012 10:09 PM

OK, notwithstanding what I said previously, I guess you could try a different approach.
1. Run a dedicated 220VAC line for your saw from the main. Make sure you have the properly sized breaker. Install a single receptacle for that purpose in the garage.
2. Run a dedicated 20A circuit from the main with the appropriate breaker and install receptacles as needed. You probably only need two or three single gang receptacles . . . but I have seen as many as three double gang on one circuit.
3. Do NOT try bridging or skimping on the design. Just bite the small bullet and install as I have suggested.

Does that help you find a middle ground?? Hope so because you have wood to cut! :)

Wuzzat? 09-27-2012 11:14 AM

BTW, are there informal or formal rules that most pros would agree on
for distance to the main panel and for power requirements
such that an OP would almost certainly need a subpanel?

Same question for almost certainly not needing a subpanel?

Do the rules change if labor is free?

matt_vo 10-04-2012 02:39 PM

Thanks for the replies guys,
I also forgot to mention that the previous owners ran a line through the garage for some exterior receptacles. So I'll use that circuit to add lighting.
I ended up running a 15 amp 220VAC line to the table saw from the main panel, with two single pole 15 amp breakers. Works fine. I might just run another independent 20amp circuit as Villa suggested, instead of splitting. Although I still seem to think that splitting is a logical solution. As you sure it doesn't meet code?

Thanks!

Wuzzat? 10-04-2012 02:59 PM

Meeting code gives some certainty of reasonable safety somewhat independent of the skill level of the installer. Just understand the rules and follow them.

Not meeting code can still be reasonably safe depending on your skill level. Understand where the current will flow and how much will flow during fault conditions.

For additional safety you can get breakers with trip curves designed to handle your particular loads, which seem to be motors.


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