DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Electrical and Wiring > Wiring workshop




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-25-2012, 07:07 AM  
matt_vo
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 17
Default Wiring workshop

Hi all,
Was wondering if this is possible/permitted.
I'd like to wire my garage to power some woodworking tools and add receptacles. I'd like to have a couple 20 Amp 110V receptacles, and a 20 Amp 220V receptacle to power a table saw. My main panel is around 30 ft away. I know I need 12 gauge wire.

Can I run a single 12/3 wire from my panel to my workshop, on two individual 20 amp 110v breakers, bridged with those metal clips, and then split it so I get receptacles running on 110V with 1 hot and 1 neutral routed to one breaker, and have the 220V receptacle with 2 hots routed to both breakers? I read somewhere on the interwebs someone doing just that. Seems logical.

Thanks in advance.
Matt



__________________
matt_vo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-25-2012, 08:26 AM  
CallMeVilla
Senior Member
 
CallMeVilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,179
Liked 335 Times on 264 Posts
Likes Given: 127

Default

You are better served by installng a small subpanel. This will allow you to have your circuit breakers set up for 110VAC and 220VAC without splitting the single wire. I recently did this in a garage to install receptacles, overhead lights, an in-wall AC unit, dust collector, and power for a large table saw. All went well.



img_0009.jpg   subpanel-rewire.jpg  
__________________
CallMeVilla is offline  
nealtw Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-25-2012, 05:16 PM  
matt_vo
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 17
Default

Hey,
Thanks for the suggestion and pictures, but I think installing a smaller subpanel is more than what I need. It would cost more and take more time to install. All I need are a couple of receptacles to power my tools. And my main panel isn't that far away so if a breaker trips I won't mind walking a little more to it.
It's a small, weekend workshop/garage.
So to come back to my question, is what I suggested feasible, and if so, permitted by code?

Thanks again!
Matt

__________________
matt_vo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-25-2012, 05:33 PM  
joecaption
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Hartfield VA, VA
Posts: 1,361
Liked 37 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Sorry Matt big mistake.
Been through this a hundred times with customers.
They all say all I needs is a few outlet, then they start adding more stiff, needing 220 volts, running a vacuum at the same time as a saw to collect the dust, garage door opener, more outside lights ECT..
Now all the money you spent on wire is down the toilet and you have to redo the whole thing just to up size the wire.
Doing it right once is far cheaper.
Those panels are not all that expencive.

__________________
joecaption is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 04:50 PM  
Wuzzat?
Senior Member
 
Wuzzat?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,215
Liked 149 Times on 136 Posts
Likes Given: 80

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Sorry Matt big mistake.
Been through this a hundred times with customers.
They all say all I needs is a few outlet, then they start adding more stiff, needing 220 volts, running a vacuum at the same time as a saw to collect the dust, garage door opener, more outside lights ECT..
Now all the money you spent on wire is down the toilet and you have to redo the whole thing just to up size the wire.
Doing it right once is far cheaper.
Those panels are not all that expencive.
How many of those customers are happy without the upgrade?

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_vo View Post
All I need. . .
It's a small, weekend workshop/garage.
What is the labor time & parts cost for two or more NEC compliant options?

How likely is it that you will want to upgrade for your occasional use workshop?
After how long?

How much trouble & $ is it to upgrade if you don't go with the subpanel?
__________________

Last edited by Wuzzat?; 09-26-2012 at 05:01 PM.
Wuzzat? is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 05:30 PM  
nealtw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: vancouver, b.c.
Posts: 8,991
Liked 687 Times on 615 Posts
Likes Given: 1210

Default

Matt: I'll just pile on with everyone else. As soon as you start working in the shop you will want something else, you know "guys and there toys". And no I don't think what you want to do is code.

__________________
nealtw is online now  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-26-2012, 10:09 PM  
CallMeVilla
Senior Member
 
CallMeVilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,179
Liked 335 Times on 264 Posts
Likes Given: 127

Default

OK, notwithstanding what I said previously, I guess you could try a different approach.
1. Run a dedicated 220VAC line for your saw from the main. Make sure you have the properly sized breaker. Install a single receptacle for that purpose in the garage.
2. Run a dedicated 20A circuit from the main with the appropriate breaker and install receptacles as needed. You probably only need two or three single gang receptacles . . . but I have seen as many as three double gang on one circuit.
3. Do NOT try bridging or skimping on the design. Just bite the small bullet and install as I have suggested.

Does that help you find a middle ground?? Hope so because you have wood to cut!

__________________
CallMeVilla is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-27-2012, 11:14 AM  
Wuzzat?
Senior Member
 
Wuzzat?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,215
Liked 149 Times on 136 Posts
Likes Given: 80

Default

BTW, are there informal or formal rules that most pros would agree on
for distance to the main panel and for power requirements
such that an OP would almost certainly need a subpanel?

Same question for almost certainly not needing a subpanel?

Do the rules change if labor is free?

__________________
Wuzzat? is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-04-2012, 02:39 PM  
matt_vo
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 17
Default

Thanks for the replies guys,
I also forgot to mention that the previous owners ran a line through the garage for some exterior receptacles. So I'll use that circuit to add lighting.
I ended up running a 15 amp 220VAC line to the table saw from the main panel, with two single pole 15 amp breakers. Works fine. I might just run another independent 20amp circuit as Villa suggested, instead of splitting. Although I still seem to think that splitting is a logical solution. As you sure it doesn't meet code?

Thanks!

__________________
matt_vo is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-04-2012, 02:59 PM  
Wuzzat?
Senior Member
 
Wuzzat?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,215
Liked 149 Times on 136 Posts
Likes Given: 80

Default

Meeting code gives some certainty of reasonable safety somewhat independent of the skill level of the installer. Just understand the rules and follow them.

Not meeting code can still be reasonably safe depending on your skill level. Understand where the current will flow and how much will flow during fault conditions.

For additional safety you can get breakers with trip curves designed to handle your particular loads, which seem to be motors.



__________________

Last edited by Wuzzat?; 10-04-2012 at 03:02 PM.
Wuzzat? is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter DIY Home Repair Forum Replies Last Post
New outlet in workshop JeremyB Electrical and Wiring 8 02-04-2012 07:11 PM
Wiring new fan Amber Electrical and Wiring 1 10-14-2008 09:02 AM
Wiring 220 Kelly Electrical and Wiring 6 02-04-2008 04:08 PM
wiring violet General Appliance Discussion 3 11-03-2007 04:42 PM
New door on workshop msdataman37 Windows and Doors 4 06-30-2007 08:26 AM