How do we fix our healthcare system in America?

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bud16415 said:
All the problems you mentioned are real problems in our country and not only prohibit people from buying health insurance, they hold them back from buying homes and cars and clothes and going on vacations and educating their children etc. etc.

Those problems are what we as a country should be looking at and it is what has changed from the 50’s thru 80’s. The insurance issue is just one of many things a country that has ran out of speed will suffer from. We remember the good old days and we apply the good old days model to some parts of today when there is something we don’t like and say see how things have changed. Why do all these people have to work 3 or 4 part time jobs to still lose ground is the big question. I go to Walmart and people are buying flat panel TV sets like they are giving them away. As a kid every family also wanted a TV in their home and every single TV you could buy was made in the USA and every part inside the TV was made in the USA. Every car you went to buy the TV in was made in the USA right down to the tires. Everyone that wanted a good job and was willing to work had one and most got health insurance as part of that job.

It is hard to not see there was a winning formula for this country once upon a time.

The question is what happened and why?

Going back to the first post in this thread here is Chris a guy we all know wanting to recapture that winning formula for himself and his family and his then workers.

The question is what happened then to now and why? He correctly sees the deck stacked against his efforts in a lot of ways. Take that one guy times a million guys like him with the drive to put in play the winning formula would make big changes and allow things to start snowballing in the right direction.

Everyone in business and working under the principals of free enterprise are not greedy people. Sure he wants his piece of the pie. That’s the thing about the way this country was before all this everyone could have as much pie as they wanted. It wasn’t one pie to be sectioned up for everyone as we now think it was a growing pie where the bigger the slice you earned the pie got bigger for everyone else.
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I think you are correct, it is not just healthcare but everything has changed. We are now raised to live in a throw away society where all the things you used to work hard for in the 50's should be given to us or at least discounted and the ones in charge of them are evil or crooks and then all the throw away crap that everyone buys then re buys and buys again and again over and over because it is either junk made in foreign countries or the the lemmings are following the new fashion or trying to keep up with their neighbors is what has become priority.

I listen to stories my grandfather tells me. He came to america after the second world war, he had to join the Swedish army then apply for citizenship then had to join the American army in order to apply for citizenship. He came here and worked like a slave to get ahead. He did several odd jobs the landed at Firestone making tires and later jumped over to Aerojet until he retired. He would tell me how they only had one car for the whole family and they kept them for 20-30 years. He still has and drives his 1971 Chevy station wagon with 350,000 miles on it but in great condition. They had one TV and one radio. They used their credit card for larger purchases and paid it off before buying anything else on it. They saved up and paid cash for everything as to not pay interest charges. When things needed fixed they learned how to do it themselves and as a last resort hired someone to come in. Maintained everything they owned in top not conditions and in return it lasted them for years and years. It was a simple idea he says, buy quality and take care of it and it will last you a lifetime. None of this is taught to todays youth and we don't see it hardly anywhere. just think of it, how many TV's have you bought over the last 20 years? how many different cars have you owned over the last 10 or 20 years? People say its just a different time now but I see that as being the problem. We buy trash and then bury it a year later. No wonder China is number one.

I find myself over the last few years in buying older quality made tools that are rebuildable because a 40 year old tool can easily be better than any brand new one. We still make quality on America if you can find it.
 
bud16415 said:
:confused:
:confused:
:confused:
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Blue Cross and Blue Shield developed separately, with Blue Cross plans providing coverage for hospital services and Blue Shield covering physicians' services.[3]

Blue Cross is a name used by an association of health insurance plans throughout the United States. Its predecessor was developed by Justin Ford Kimball in 1929, while he was vice president of Baylor University's health care facilities in Dallas, Texas.[4] The first plan guaranteed teachers 21 days of hospital care for $6 a year, was later extended to other employee groups in Dallas, and then nationally.[4] The American Hospital Association (AHA) adopted the Blue Cross symbol in 1939 as the emblem for plans meeting certain standards. In 1960, the AHA commission was superseded by the Blue Cross Association. Blue Cross severed its ties with the AHA in 1972.

Blue Shield was developed by employers in lumber and mining camps of the Pacific Northwest to provide medical care by paying monthly fees to medical service bureaus composed of groups of physicians.[5][6] In 1939, the first official Blue Shield plan was founded in California. In 1948, the symbol was informally adopted by nine plans called the Associated Medical Care Plan, and was later renamed the National Association of Blue Shield Plans.

In the 1960s the US government chose to partner with Blue Cross and Blue Shield companies to administer Medicare.[6]

In 1982, Blue Shield merged with The Blue Cross Association to form the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association (BCBS).[7]

Prior to 1986, organizations administering BCBS were tax exempt under 501(c)(4) as social welfare plans. However, the Tax Reform Act of 1986 revoked the exemption, because the plans sold commercial-type insurance. They became 501(m) organizations, subject to federal taxation, but entitled to "special tax benefits"[8] under IRC 833.[9]

In 1994, BCBS changed to allow its licensees to be for-profit corporations.[3] During 2010, Health Care Service Corporation, the parent company of BCBS in Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Montana and Illinois, nearly doubled its income to $1.09 billion in 2010, and began four years of billion-dollar profits.[10] In the final spending bill for FY 2015 after much lobbying since 2010, nonprofit Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans continue to have special tax breaks that were understood to be threatened by the Affordable C
 
Sounds like it worked pretty well until the government got involved.
 
Chris said:
I think you are correct, it is not just healthcare but everything has changed. We are now raised to live in a throw away society where all the things you used to work hard for in the 50's should be given to us or at least discounted and the ones in charge of them are evil or crooks and then all the throw away crap that everyone buys then re buys and buys again and again over and over because it is either junk made in foreign countries or the the lemmings are following the new fashion or trying to keep up with their neighbors is what has become priority.

I listen to stories my grandfather tells me. He came to america after the second world war, he had to join the Swedish army then apply for citizenship then had to join the American army in order to apply for citizenship. He came here and worked like a slave to get ahead. He did several odd jobs the landed at Firestone making tires and later jumped over to Aerojet until he retired. He would tell me how they only had one car for the whole family and they kept them for 20-30 years. He still has and drives his 1971 Chevy station wagon with 350,000 miles on it but in great condition. They had one TV and one radio. They used their credit card for larger purchases and paid it off before buying anything else on it. They saved up and paid cash for everything as to not pay interest charges. When things needed fixed they learned how to do it themselves and as a last resort hired someone to come in. Maintained everything they owned in top not conditions and in return it lasted them for years and years. It was a simple idea he says, buy quality and take care of it and it will last you a lifetime. None of this is taught to todays youth and we don't see it hardly anywhere. just think of it, how many TV's have you bought over the last 20 years? how many different cars have you owned over the last 10 or 20 years? People say its just a different time now but I see that as being the problem. We buy trash and then bury it a year later. No wonder China is number one.

I find myself over the last few years in buying older quality made tools that are rebuildable because a 40 year old tool can easily be better than any brand new one. We still make quality on America if you can find it.
Click to expand...
A lot of the problems you describe came through competition, some of it foreign but not all of it. Say company A makes washers. They build a high quality product that last for 30 years. I only remember my mother owning one washer the whole time I was growing up. So company B, they cut a few corners and make a cheaper washer but it still lasts 20 years, pretty good still. Well company A loses sales to company B's cheaper washer. Well what are they going to do? Usually make it even cheaper. Then they realize that not only will more people buy their cheaper washer but if they can make them only last 10 years you will have to buy one sooner and they sell even more of them driving up profits. Once they have wrung out all the profit they can by lowering the cost (quality) through design and material changes the next logical step is to go after labor cost. Best way to do that used to be to try and get the union out of the equation so they move to states that help them do that. I'd be willing to bet that Firestone was a union plant, probably Aerojet too. Thus begins the downward spiral of labor. Employees are forced to take less pay, they hire mainly part time to avoid benefit costs, they automate. From there the next step is to go off shore and close the US facilities. You get dirt cheap labor and no regulation. They are free to pay whatever they want, they don't have to worry about dumping their waste into the local river or burying it in the ground. They can eliminate any emission controls and just discharge right to the air. That is the inherent cycle of the free capitalist market, its just the nature of the beast to constantly try to increase profit. Sort of the good with the bad. There are some instances where quality will win out. High end luxury and sports cars. There are some high end appliances available. Sub-Zero and Viking make really nice high quality appliances. They are expensive but they are made in the US which is why I own both. So people that want an item will generally shop price first and that usually means foreign made and now people rarely even consider where it was made. When I shop I start by looking for US made products first. It usually isn't the cheapest option but I'm willing to pay more to buy American but some people just can't afford to and too many just don't care and at the same time wonder where all the jobs went.

I will say I think cars have actually improved in life expectancy. When I was a kid in the 60's and 70's a car with 100,000 was a lot. Now cars run over 100,000 miles all the time. Most people that buy a new or nearly new car never wear them out they just get tired of them and want something newer. Of course it almost impossible for the average person to repair a car yourself any more outside brakes or changing oil.
 
68bucks said:
A lot of the problems you describe came through competition, some of it foreign but not all of it. Say company A makes washers. They build a high quality product that last for 30 years. I only remember my mother owning one washer the whole time I was growing up. So company B, they cut a few corners and make a cheaper washer but it still lasts 20 years, pretty good still. Well company A loses sales to company B's cheaper washer. Well what are they going to do? Usually make it even cheaper. Then they realize that not only will more people buy their cheaper washer but if they can make them only last 10 years you will have to buy one sooner and they sell even more of them driving up profits. Once they have wrung out all the profit they can by lowering the cost (quality) through design and material changes the next logical step is to go after labor cost. Best way to do that used to be to try and get the union out of the equation so they move to states that help them do that. I'd be willing to bet that Firestone was a union plant, probably Aerojet too. Thus begins the downward spiral of labor. Employees are forced to take less pay, they hire mainly part time to avoid benefit costs, they automate. From there the next step is to go off shore and close the US facilities. You get dirt cheap labor and no regulation. They are free to pay whatever they want, they don't have to worry about dumping their waste into the local river or burying it in the ground. They can eliminate any emission controls and just discharge right to the air. That is the inherent cycle of the free capitalist market, its just the nature of the beast to constantly try to increase profit. Sort of the good with the bad. There are some instances where quality will win out. High end luxury and sports cars. There are some high end appliances available. Sub-Zero and Viking make really nice high quality appliances. They are expensive but they are made in the US which is why I own both. So people that want an item will generally shop price first and that usually means foreign made and now people rarely even consider where it was made. When I shop I start by looking for US made products first. It usually isn't the cheapest option but I'm willing to pay more to buy American but some people just can't afford to and too many just don't care and at the same time wonder where all the jobs went.

I will say I think cars have actually improved in life expectancy. When I was a kid in the 60's and 70's a car with 100,000 was a lot. Now cars run over 100,000 miles all the time. Most people that buy a new or nearly new car never wear them out they just get tired of them and want something newer. Of course it almost impossible for the average person to repair a car yourself any more outside brakes or changing oil.
Click to expand...

Your analysis is interesting but I don’t think it is too accurate.

We invented the automobile and the clothes washer in this country and from the day of Henry Ford till today the name of the game was automation. In fact automation brought cost down and quality up and is credited for making all the jobs. These were new jobs that never existed before Ford started mass producing autos. Sure there were buggy whip makers that lost their jobs but for every whip maker that lost his job there were a 100 factory jobs made. At the hay day of all this the unions formed and the workers prospered as did the owners. The reason being the pie kept getting larger and everyone could get a bigger slice. The result of all these jobs would be more people buying washers and autos. Because wages were up and costs were down.

Fast forward to today and look at the products that are in demand. iPhones and computers and electronics of all kinds. These things are about as highly automated as you can get. Trust me you couldn’t afford a hand built iPhone and you wouldn’t want one as it would never work.

You are right about regulations and dumping stuff.

There is nothing wrong with a business wanting to increase profits. I never saw a business yet that wanted to just hang on. That’s what Chris had hopes of doing out in Ca until they drove him out and spoiled his vision of what success should look like. Most modern business don’t want to pollute and kill the people that work for them or look bad to their consumers they are willing to be regulated to a sane degree.

No there are other forces in play as to what is going on here.
 
68bucks said:
A lot of the problems you describe came through competition, some of it foreign but not all of it. Say company A makes washers. They build a high quality product that last for 30 years. I only remember my mother owning one washer the whole time I was growing up. So company B, they cut a few corners and make a cheaper washer but it still lasts 20 years, pretty good still. Well company A loses sales to company B's cheaper washer. Well what are they going to do? Usually make it even cheaper. Then they realize that not only will more people buy their cheaper washer but if they can make them only last 10 years you will have to buy one sooner and they sell even more of them driving up profits. Once they have wrung out all the profit they can by lowering the cost (quality) through design and material changes the next logical step is to go after labor cost. Best way to do that used to be to try and get the union out of the equation so they move to states that help them do that. I'd be willing to bet that Firestone was a union plant, probably Aerojet too. Thus begins the downward spiral of labor. Employees are forced to take less pay, they hire mainly part time to avoid benefit costs, they automate. From there the next step is to go off shore and close the US facilities. You get dirt cheap labor and no regulation. They are free to pay whatever they want, they don't have to worry about dumping their waste into the local river or burying it in the ground. They can eliminate any emission controls and just discharge right to the air. That is the inherent cycle of the free capitalist market, its just the nature of the beast to constantly try to increase profit. Sort of the good with the bad. There are some instances where quality will win out. High end luxury and sports cars. There are some high end appliances available. Sub-Zero and Viking make really nice high quality appliances. They are expensive but they are made in the US which is why I own both. So people that want an item will generally shop price first and that usually means foreign made and now people rarely even consider where it was made. When I shop I start by looking for US made products first. It usually isn't the cheapest option but I'm willing to pay more to buy American but some people just can't afford to and too many just don't care and at the same time wonder where all the jobs went.

I will say I think cars have actually improved in life expectancy. When I was a kid in the 60's and 70's a car with 100,000 was a lot. Now cars run over 100,000 miles all the time. Most people that buy a new or nearly new car never wear them out they just get tired of them and want something newer. Of course it almost impossible for the average person to repair a car yourself any more outside brakes or changing oil.
Click to expand...

This is when it comes down to us to keep things quality made in America. If we as a nation pushed for it we would get it, If we wanted once in a lifetime items they would make them.

just got off the phone with my grandfather, He said the unions were a big part of why he left Sweden. When he worked for Firestone and Aerojet they were not union at his plants, he said Aerojet went out because of the unions. He was telling how nothing ever got accomplished at the union factories. He was just telling a story about one of the testing facilities he would visit to test whatever he was working on, he would need to tighten a couple screws, they would have to call for the proper union person to come and tighten those two screws because he was not allowed to use a screwdriver. He said it would take up to a few hours to get a screw turned a half a turn. It would take a team of people and ten times longer than it should with just one trained person. I try and listen to alot of what he has to say because he grew up when everything in our world was changing, he saw it all first hand from the depression to damn near flying cars. Just a week or two ago he was telling me about kids toys and how my kids have so much stuff. He said when he was a kid his bedroom was maybe 6 x 10 and it didn't feel small, he said everything was smaller back then. He was saying how he had maybe two or three toys at a time and he used his imagination with them. For him growing up was an outdoor thing, those couple toys were for when the weather was bad. He probably put more miles on a bicycle than any youth today.

I guess the moral of the story is that people were more content and humbled in the past, they had what they needed and were happy with that.
 
Place the deck chairs close to the railing so when the ship sinks it will be easier to climb over and jump ship.
 
Trump needs your support, call him and tell him you have his back

2017-04-22_2258.png
 
The swamp captain.
25th
Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.[3]
 
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That is all neato and a really good fairy tail wish list you have in that post'

but the truth of the matter is while President Trump is under investigation by a special counsel

He can NOT be impeached,

Impeachment proceedings can not be filed till AFTER the investigation has determined guilt.


From what I have seen this Investigation is going to last a minimum of a year

President Trump is not going anywhere,
 
frodo said:
That is all neato and a really good fairy tail wish list you have in that post'

but the truth of the matter is while President Trump is under investigation by a special counsel

He can NOT be impeached,

Impeachment proceedings can not be filed till AFTER the investigation has determined guilt.


From what I have seen this Investigation is going to last a minimum of a year

President Trump is not going anywhere,
Click to expand...

Where did you find that gem.
the 25th is not impeachment but the investigator could take his evidence to congress.

He is shaking it up.:thbup:
 
Whether you agree with the guy or not, I like the guy's voice. He could do radio stuff. He was fairly entertaining. I think he was trying to mimic Liam Neeson at some points.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFh9e8pbPQk[/ame]
 
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nealtw said:
Where did you find that gem.
the 25th is not impeachment but the investigator could take his evidence to congress.

He is shaking it up.:thbup:
Click to expand...

Yes, you are correct, The investigator can take his evidence to congress
AFTER the investigation is complete.
 
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