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Old 06-16-2017, 06:25 AM  
afjes_2016
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Originally Posted by PromethusBound View Post
The condiuit is metal. If I have the + and - can I just ground the wiring inside the garage?
Ok, maybe others know what you are referring to here as + and - but I don't and in order for me to assist you I need to understand. I can't attempt to answer this question with any certainty if I don't know what you are referring to.

Also, what do you mean by "just ground the wiring inside the garage"? Ground it how?


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Old 06-16-2017, 08:23 AM  
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What afjes_2016 is saying. The wires you show are AC alternating current. They switch from + to – , 60 times per second. There is no plus or minus that is for batteries that put out DC or direct current.

The term most used now are HOT for the power wire and neutral for the other leg of the power.

Now for using those wires for something inside the garage. You can’t just connect to them out in the driveway or yard or where you are showing them cut. The fact they are crazy colors and not done to code would be enough for me to find the other end of them and disconnect them and run new power to were you need it all to code.

You need a plan.


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Old 06-16-2017, 09:18 AM  
PromethusBound
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Originally Posted by afjes_2016 View Post
Wait a second. Please something does not sound "kosher" the way you explain it.

First of all let's try and stay with proper terminology so we can all follow you properly during your investigation and at the same time give you some education (no disrespect here; just trying to keep you safe at the end).

In the above you state the only one you get power from is the black with "ANY" other one. I don't feel comfortable with this result or you are not reading your meter correctly maybe. You should be getting different readings depending on what other wire/s you touch with your meter. You need to be specific when you say "other wires". First of all how many wires are there and what are their colors at both the end (as per your picture) and what colors are connected to the breaker/s ground neutral bars in the panel. Also, do you know for a fact if there is a jbox between the breaker panel and the end (in your picture).

Also then you state above "The only wire I get 119 from is the white wire" you can't get power from only just one wire with your meter. What wire did you touch with the meter besides the white?

"which makes me believe that those are +/-" what do you mean by this. AC is different than DC in so many ways. There is no "-" or "+" in AC. Not trying to be difficult with you but I just don't want to see you hurt yourself.

Let's all get our "lingo" straight and together so we know what each wire is representing.

We must remember what PromethusBound said.
"The garage had a single 120 outlet, a couple of interior lights and a garage door opener. No breaker in the garage." Therefore it would be incorrect for us to assume that there are two hots, one neutral and a ground wire going to the garage. My mind is telling me that who ever ran these lines may have broken code by running more than one circuit to the garage. Anyway, we have to stop and slow down a bit for PromethusBound.

PromethusBound also states "The red wire is the only wire I am seeing going directly to that specific breaker." All those wires and only one connected to a breaker with power from at least two that PromethusBound has mentioned so far.

PromethusBound, please understand I am not trying to single you out of this conversation. I am trying to get a better picture (we are trying to) so we know how to guide you. We are not there, we can't test your wires for you nor can we see the breaker panel feeding these wires. For this reason we must get a "clearer" picture (understanding) of what is what before we can advise you properly. Your safety is our (members here who assist) number one goal.

Ok a big question. PromethusBound are you in the US? or another county? I only ask because you do not specify and electrical is/can be different in other counties. The colors you are mentioning are not standard colors for the US; however being in conduit individual conductors can be run and any color can be used; but standard is black, red, white, green etc; or all black with colored tapes designating what each wire is. Is there a junction box between your breaker panel and the garage wires?

Since we all are not working with the standard /2 or /3 Romex here we have no idea what was done and how it was done in the way of running power out to the garage. Also no breaker panel in the garage according to PromethusBound. I suggest we all take a step back and start from the beginning. I only say this because of the inconsistencies that I am noticing here in the replies.

And again as Nealtw points out that you say which does not make sense with all these wires as "I have verified that all power is dead when the breaker is off." The breaker?? A single pole breaker or two pole breaker, do you know the difference; if not let us know because i can't see how you can have all these wires and only one is connected to a breaker if single pole.

Ok, I have said enough. I think we all know what I mean and what my concern is here.

PromethusBound please keep in mind with terminology.
Hot wire - wire connected to the breaker. Un-grounded conductor
Neutral wire - (not common or negative) connected to the neutral bar of your panel (see NOTE below)- GroundED conductor
Ground wire - connected to your ground bar of your panel. GroundING conductor. (see NOTE below)
This all makes a big difference.

Note: if the wires are connected to the main panel the ground and neutral may/will be on the same bar or ones connected. If a sub panel the ground and neutral will be isolated from each other.
I appreciate the clarification, yes I am in the US. When testing the wires the only hot wire I found was black. When I tested Black w/ all other wires I was showing between 115-119 volts. When I tested Black & White I did see 119 but when testing black w/ all other wires it showed 115. I am not sure if its single of a double pole. I attached a photo if that helps. Its the 3rd from the bottom on the left.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:22 AM  
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Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
What afjes_2016 is saying. The wires you show are AC alternating current. They switch from + to – , 60 times per second. There is no plus or minus that is for batteries that put out DC or direct current.

The term most used now are HOT for the power wire and neutral for the other leg of the power.

Now for using those wires for something inside the garage. You can’t just connect to them out in the driveway or yard or where you are showing them cut. The fact they are crazy colors and not done to code would be enough for me to find the other end of them and disconnect them and run new power to were you need it all to code.

You need a plan.
The OP is using +&- in the generic sense and believes he has found a neutral conductor, in the white, and believes the yellow conductor is the grnd, and the other conductors in the conduit as the hots.

He is, however, short on specifics.

We all know there is a process of elimination, in both determining source, as well as identifying cause/cure for problems.

It's my belief that this dwelling uses metallic conduit and primarily individual conductors in the wiring, instead of 2 & 3 conductor romex. As evidenced in the OP's thred attic exhaust fan and that he has identified the conduit in this thred, as metal.
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:04 PM  
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We want to see the picture of the breaker box with the cover off so we can see all the wires going in the conduit going to the garage. And what all those wires are attached to.

Can we assume that some machine that was used to knock down the garage also ran over the conduit, doing what ever damage it might.
Some one removed a junction box, was that junction box in the garage, what is your plan on joining, if you have a junction box in the yard it will have to be accessible.
The breaker for the garage or at least others near there are 20 amp, are all the wires 12 ga.?
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Old 06-16-2017, 03:06 PM  
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As an expansion of "terminology", the removable cover which contains the breaker labeling, is called the "dead front panel."
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Old 06-18-2017, 06:03 AM  
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Originally Posted by PromethusBound View Post
I appreciate the clarification, yes I am in the US. When testing the wires the only hot wire I found was black. When I tested Black w/ all other wires I was showing between 115-119 volts. When I tested Black & White I did see 119 but when testing black w/ all other wires it showed 115. I am not sure if its single of a double pole. I attached a photo if that helps. Its the 3rd from the bottom on the left.
Could you provide a photo of all the breakers and take 1 step to the left, so that the breaker values are clear?

It would clear up the confusion displayed in posts 21 & 22 of your other thred; http://www.houserepairtalk.com/showt...t=23041&page=3

It's been about 17yrs. since I've worker on a Push-o-Matic service, but as I recall, the value of the breakers are embossed on both sides of the push lever.

However, if my recollection is incorrect, could you also provide a photo from the right side of the service, so those breaker values are clear?
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Old 07-16-2017, 09:41 AM  
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Default Possible hidden junction box

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Originally Posted by PromethusBound View Post
I checked the breaker inside the house but it only had a single red wire connected which doesn't match anything outside. Unfortunately, I can't tell where they ran the wires from w/o tearing up the ground and possibly asphalt.
Be very careful. That seems to be a job for an electrician. The cable in the picture does not look like it is properly protected. If you see that in the breaker box the only odd color wire is the red one and in the garage you have blue and yellow, then somewhere between the house and the garage, there is a junction box or a secondary breaker box. I was working in a house identifying electric issues and discovered that there was a secondary breaker box hidden behind drywall (completely covered). The only safe way to work with those cables is to turn off the main breaker. Since two of those cables show to be hot, you have 220 Volts, which can KILL you instantly.
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:17 AM  
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Default Garage outside lights.

Were there outside lights on the garage? Could they be controlled from the house? Were in the house is that switch located?

Blue was very often used as a switched conductor in single phase conduit work.

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