Please help me understand if I need a custom door

Hey Guys,
I have had two different contractors come out and quote me $5,000+ to install a new patio door (french door, 2 panel, in-swing, with a ~1 foot transom). One was Case (Fred Division) and the other was Nova Exteriors.

I just realized that both quotes were for CUSTOM, one was Provia and the other was Therma-Tru.

I am trying to figure out WHY everyone is quoting custom doors vs. standard size doors (and is the practice legit, or are they padding profits?). I only have minimal requirements, I am not asking for any crazy features.

I will post a picture soon, and measurements too of course. I've asked my latest contractor for more information on why custom was needed.

Thanks,
Drew

Only reasons I can think of is if an odd ball sized door.
French doors can be ordered about 100 differant ways with tons of features, materials, in opening out opening, open on left, open on right and differant heights widths and jam widths, differant colored hindges ect.
Just measure from inside to inside of jam and add 1-1/2" (the jam thickness is 3/4" on each side so 3/4 plus 3/4 = 1-1/2") and the doors height.
The most common size is 6'8" tall by 6' wide. In most cases a 5' wide door ( 2, 2'6" doors) would be special ordered not really a custom made door.

If you know what the measurements were on the quote, we will be able to tell if it is custom. There are a lot of choices with doors and windows, every order may be special or custom with type of set up.

The width is just about 5' (I measured it at 58" + 1 1/2)

I will have to get the height tomorrow.


I am getting up early tomorrow to try and buy a gas range on Black Friday. Hopefully I can save some money on the range so I can pay for this $$$$$$ door.

Thanks,

Drew

A standard size double 30" door would be 60" plus 1 1/2 plus the 1/2" molding they put in between the doors. So the rough opening would need to be 62 1/2 to 63" inches wide.
It looks like you do need a custom door.

I ordered a 5-0 , 6-8 fiberglass full light , brass hindges, vinyl jams and vinyl brick moulding, adjustable sill and hindges from Eastern Aluminum Supply and paid $750.00 for it.
One of my customers ordered an Atrim door, out opening, 6-0 6-8, fiberglass, full lights with blinds, vinyl brick moulding and jams, adjustable sills for around $1000.00. From Home Depot.
Far less then the $5000.00 you were quoted. There must be some hidden repair work to be done that you did not mention.
Just replacing a door should only take 1/2 a day, repair work, far more.
If anyone installs this door make them install a sill pan before the door goes in and window tape around the nailing fins.

Didn't someone once say, "A Fool And His Money Are Easily Parted"? No reflections on anyone, as I've been fooled more than once myself. But what I'm gently suggesting is that you do some shopping around for a product that will work for your situation, while not costing you an arm and a leg. If it has to be custom, so be it (and expect to pay for it). But you might consider exploring the possibility of slightly modifying the rough opening yourself (if the header dimensions and everything else allow) to enable buying a less expensive, non-custom product. Or for sure, consider the option of you buying the door in advance, and having the person of your choice install it for a labor-only charge. All residential doors come with a manufacturer's product warranty, so don't let anyone tell you they can't install a door you bought because of "warranty issues."

Case in point: On one of the projects I inspected for the State Human Services Department last year, the "wood-butcher" contractor ruined a large patio French door by cracking the frame (he very sheepishly admitted during my walk-through that "his guys might have forced it a bit" during installation; on another job going on at the same time, he never bothered applying for a building permit--$46,000 major complete rebuild). I suggested the client-owner contact the door manufacturer, which she did--a new door arrived on site within a week, at no cost to her.

This is what happens when people pull out the glass patio slider and install french doors with out changeing the header. You would think by now some one would be building a door just for this purpose.

Well, the original door was a french patio door, not a slider (FWIW).

edit: Had a thought---on these homes the BASE model had a sliding glass door, the french door was an upgrade. So the builder may have used the same size hole and installed custom french doors if specified by the buyer.


My door DOES include a transom.

I was quoted about $3000 for the Therma Tru door+transom, about $2000 for labor.

It does include some minor extra repairs, but not much.

My 2nd quote (also about $5000) was for a Pro-via door without the transom (use existing).

I am planning to get a 3rd quote soon.

I don't want to be the fool but I also don't want to have Home Depot install it and send some random guy out to install it (had a bad experience with that before).

I got to Sears at 1:45 this morning and waited until 4AM in 37F weather, but saved about $1000 on appliances. :

Thanks!!!

There is no devider between the doors in a french door in most cases.
http://www.sunwindows.com/Downloads/Sizes/CIFDsizes.pdf
Adding the transom makes it a custom door.
A simple thing like a transome might have a dozen differant ways it can look. Full glass, deviders at differant spaces, type of glass, clear, frosted, acrilic block ect..
The header over a slidder and a french door are the same size, it would be holding up the same amount of weight over a given span for both doors.

They have a molding on one door to hold the weather strip. It is usually adds 1/2 or 3/4 " to the width.

Here is the picture with the transom...

Give these people a call and see if they will give you a price. If not let me know and I''ll call them for you. I have an account there and as long as you pay for it when it's picked up they could care less who picks it up.
http://www.lansingbp.com/locations.html

Most times you want to keep everything the same size so the brick molding on the out side fits the siding. If that is the case then you are heading for custom. If that would be an easy change out there then I would pull the molding and measure the rough opening and take a close look at the shims beside the door to find the usable rough opening. Don't forget to cut the paint before pulling molding.

It looks like the header was built into the floor system upstairs, changing it is out of the question.

Thanks Everyone,

I appreciate all of your posts, I feel like you are all helping me get closer to making a good choice. Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors with door sales, so it is hard for the "average joe" to know who to trust.

Question: The first contractor said that they would use the existing transom, the second said it MUST be replaced because it is part of the door. These are both reputable businesses with experience installing doors. What do you think?

I have the third estimate scheduled for Tuesday.

Drew

Depends on how they were attached. The door and the window at one point were two differant pieces, there not made together in 99% of the cases in newer units. Old wooden doors came as one piece and could not come apart.
Some use metal plates on the sides, some use corrigated fastners, but until it comes out or at least the trims pulled, there's no way to tell how it was attached.

Sealed windows are only good for so long, after spending all the time and money, I would change it out for a new one.

I also would change out the whole thing, there going to have to break the seal on the outside between the two to get it apart.
I'd also order the new window with deviders in the top glass instead of one big window.