cast iron lead pipe

I want to remove the pictured lead drain.


Can anyone suggest a pattern of bracing/framing that will allow for the new PVC to run into the castiron -- and still provide a solid base for plywood subfloor and without removing the existing studwall (non-load) resting on the existing brace?


Also, When the new drain goes in does the height have to be exactly known so the toilet flange sits properly on the tile?

If not, can anyone recommend a particular, robust, flange that will do the job?



thanks for your help, B

I bet you have had better days.
No way you can drop into the ceiling below and add a box down there to cover it?
You do know that this should all be ripped out repaired and reframed?
The cheater method would be to screw thru the bottom plates of the wall into 2x6 blocks under them and then give the walls some structure strength to hold the weight. You make sure you have lots of screws into the ends of the wall where they attach to other walls and then cover one side of the wall with 1/2 plywood so it is stiff, lots of nails or screws. If you can configure the depth of the floor so it takes a full 1" plywood to compensate for the lack of support from under would be good.
When you install the flange figure out the height of the tile and cut a donut of plywood to go under the flange to raise it.

thanks Nealtw, (sort of ) Added Pix at bottom of this. This started with a burst shower head, progressed to tiling the shower wall, then all the fixture walls, and finally to the floor too.

Going for the floor is the killer. Aside from all the rest, I found the long exterior wall's subfloor ends were not fastened/resting on their ends (leaving about 8" unsupported) -- enter the effort of repairing that, which led to sistering, exposing the rest of the joists and then the drain area.

Each time i took the next leap of scope I thought 'this is gonna end up a complete reno....'

A note: that short joist running perpendicular to the others to the left of the flange is cut fully to allow for the drain.

the chase for the stack runs in a bulkhead down a kitchen wall. 11' ceilings there so a dropped bulkhead below the toilet to the stack is do-able - but aesthetically not so sure.

The bathroom sits atop the kitchen -- but the kitchen extends out beyond the (as yet) untouched exterior wall (a post original construction addition) -- and probably explains the lack of support for the sub-floor along that line. There is a 2" vertical gap between the header joists there and the "hanging" sub-floor.

By "repair and reframe" do you mean the drain(s) area? -- or _all_ wood: non-load studs, ancient joists throughout & exposing both ends of the ancient joists? Which means invading the kitchen below and likely the hallway outside the b-room door?

The "old" floor was 3/4 hardwood over 1" t&g. Finished I'd expected 3/8" tile w/ ~1/4" mortar over 1/2" (concrete) board over 3/4" plywood. That's durn near close to the original -- swapping the 3/4" ply for 2 sheets of 1/2" isn't bad, though the 3/4" i got already will need returning. aaarghh.

I don't mind the cost of learning, but material waste kills me.

I'm not sure, no, I don't follow, your cheater method. I'm ambitious -but ignorant. The cheater method seems like what I'd thought of with sistering (the brother post: http://www.houserepairtalk.com/f32/leveling-bracing-issues-120-yo-joists-17798/) You're saying beef up the kitchen wall with 1/2" ply? and the wall "plates" are what I'm calling rim joists?

I haven't removed all the subfloor. Only the 3' feet in from the window (exposing the lead drain). I stopped because of the likelihood of wasting more time trying to prep for the plywood when it seemed likely it was heading for "repair and reframe" and/or I want to get a plumber in to rip out that lead.

sorry the pictures are all I got right now. I'm not there right now. the room is ~12 x7'. the drain chase joist is about about 20" across, 8" on the opposite wall, then there are 3 (or 4?), all vary around 16oc.

obviously, the dims below are feet not inches -- unfamiliar software

thanks so much!

Just to clairify a few things.
Rim joist is a full sized joist just below the floor under the outside of the exterior wall and openings like staircases.
Wall plate are 2x4s on the bottom and top of the walls with studs beween them, there are 2 top plates. The upper top plate is usually off set in length to fit into the adjasent walls to tie things together. That detail is mostly ignored for reno purposes.
One inch thick plywood is available. It is used for stair treads, comes in standard 4 x 8 sheets.
The drop into the kitchen is a no brainer for new construction evan with an eight foot ceiling, you just have to figure how big to build the box to make it like like it should be there.
Your plumber will be able to cut into the stack lower and join in abs with rubber fittings.
When sistering on to the old joist use as long a peice that you can.
And for the low ones instead fo cutting shims just sister on 2x4s to the correct height.
If you drop the toilet straight down you should be able to fix that mess with out the pipes there.
Where the foor no longer sits on the joist under the wall, you just have to be creative to find a way to add lumber that will support it.

Thanks for the clarification and confirmation. Reminded me I have a copy of Ching's BCI. Time for a refresher.

Is it not worth the effort to, not only sister, but also level up the low joists so that you end up with a number of built up joists adding all those sq inches to solidfy the floor?
Presuming, of course the sisters are able transfer their load to the walls rather than the old joist.

thanks again, your input is greatly appreciated.