Do outlets need to be inline?

Hi, I need to redo some outlets and was wondering if I could put a box in the attic and connect the 4 outlets to the power through legs or do they have to be inline?

I’m just thinking in terms of power coming from multiple outlets and meeting at the junction box.

Thanks

They can be done both ways.

Wow! Quick reply. Thank you very much.

Just wire all circuits in parallel. Black to Black and White to White and all the bare ground wires together. Then go off to your individual boxes.

You have to be aware where the feed wire is coming from and how many things are already connected to that circuit as to not put too large a demand on the whole circuit / breaker.

"I’m just thinking in terms of power coming from multiple outlets and meeting at the junction box."

You'll need to determine if the power supplying these "outlets" are powered from the same elec. service buss bar, because if not you san end up with a recepticle wired with 240V.

If there are separate circuits from different buss bars, I.D. hot pairs in the "J" box and power your receptacles from there.

mark18 said:

Hi,

I’m just thinking in terms of power coming from multiple outlets and meeting at the junction box.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Usually the power goes in the other direction. In Canada we are allowed 12 outlets. In the US that might be different if there is a limit.

mark18 said:

Hi, I need to redo some outlets and was wondering if I could put a box in the attic and connect the 4 outlets to the power through legs or do they have to be inline?

I’m just thinking in terms of power coming from multiple outlets and meeting at the junction box.

Thanks

Click to expand...

I hope I didn’t misunderstand the OP’s question. I thought he was asking that the way he has seen most wiring done is the power comes from the breaker in the panel to and outlet or as some call them a receptacle and then from there it runs to the next one and then from there the next one forming a chain of connections. His question I assumed was with it being hard to chain them together like this in an existing building can he run one feed line from the panel up to the attic to a Jbox and then from that box run what used to be called octopus wiring down the stud bays and supply power to several outlets.

If I’m wrong and he has something other than that in mind I hope he clears it up and doesn’t get confused by the rest of the conversations if this is what he was trying to say.

I kind of have to agree with Bud on this one. This is also my interpretation of the OPs question/thought pattern.

Almost like a bicycle hub where the center is the hub of the wheel (junction box in attic being fed by panel) and each spoke is a "leg" feeding a receptacle power.

Of course we know this is done a lot. Yes, mark18 this is an acceptable method however there are things to be considered. One thing is you must be mindful of how many lines you have running from the junction box meaning watch your box fill so you do't over load the box with wires.

Also wiring in parallel is better meaning if you go from receptacle to receptacle and only make your connections to the receptacle themselves and a receptacle fails in the future it is much harder to find the fault, where as if you wired in parallel such as at the receptacle box you connect your blacks and white and grounds together then jumper to the receptacle if a receptacle fails you still have power at all the other receptacle. I always give my customers that option and do kind of push it for good reasons. I do charge extra for that as there is more labor. But they do save in the future if there is a problem.

mark18 please don't be confused by the terms parallel and series with this example. AC is always parallel where as DC is always series in the circuity theory but in the physical wiring you can run either series or parallel with AC.

mark18 so that we may be able to assist you better can I please ask your skill level working with residential electrical systems?

Not to confuse the OP or going off topic the issue of series and parallel often are misstated within the home wiring concept. It is not an issue of AC or DC as both can have series or parallel current paths. There is almost no times in a house where series circuits are used and both the examples of chaining a string of outlets or feeding them one at a time from a remote Jbox are both parallel circuits. One of the few times you will ever see a series circuit in the home is the strings of little Christmas lights where when one bulb goes out the whole string goes out. In a series circuit each load acts as a voltage drop and that’s how you can power little 1.5V bulbs off 120V. No place in the home do you want one load affecting the voltage to another device so everything is wired parallel and everything sees the same 120V supply.

The first box in a serial string of outlets
or
the center box in a star configuration
or
the cord of an outlet strip
will carry the sum of the currents from everything downstream.

The outlets in a string are in parallel,
but the short slot of each is in series, as are the long slots, as are the ground terminals.

Switching on a wall oven may drop the 240v at the panel by a half volt, not noticeable.

And, switching on a hair dryer or having a laser printer printing out may flicker your same-string lights. This may be a five volt drop.

You can do what you propose. There are few things that must be met to be code compliant.
The box must not be over filled.
The box must have a cover.
The box be accessible.

JoeD said:

You can do what you propose. There are few things that must be met to be code compliant.
The box must not be over filled.
The box must have a cover.
The box be accessible.

Click to expand...

JoeD may have been a little too cryptic in his response so let me expand on it. The National Electric Code (NEC) requires pull and junction boxes to be "Readily Accessible." The NEC defines that term as "without removing any part of the building structure or finish." In other words above a suspended ceiling or behind an access hatch are ok. but if you need to cut into anything or pull up a floor board that is not "readily accessible."

mark18 said:

power coming from multiple outlets and meeting at the junction box.

Click to expand...

What I've seen is improperly installed Wirenuts, especially with more than two wires.
I recommend twisting two wires together and then twisting additional wires around this, then cut the ends square.

When you're done, stress test the setup by using a room heater and measuring how much the voltage drops when it's switched on.
50' of #14 should drop 1.3v from one conductor end to the other, @ a 10A draw. Measuring the neutral drop is safer.

More than this is contact resistance within the Wirenuts.
The box may limit the fire hazard from this but you'll have flaky appliance performance.

If anyone makes a Wirenut with a small test prod hole in the small end, I'd buy it.
That way you can troubleshoot using a VOM without taking the nut off and disturbing what may have been a perfectly working connection.





"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_currents


There was also a fight over FM radio.
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=fm+radio+patents+widow&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Wuzzat? said:

What I've seen is improperly installed Wirenuts, especially with more than two wires.
I recommend twisting two wires together and then twisting additional wires around this, then cut the ends square.

When you're done, stress test the setup by using a room heater and measuring how much the voltage drops when it's switched on.
50' of #14 should drop 1.3v from one conductor end to the other, @ a 10A draw. Measuring the neutral drop is safer.

More than this is contact resistance within the Wirenuts.
The box may limit the fire hazard from this but you'll have flaky appliance performance.

If anyone makes a Wirenut with a small test prod hole in the small end, I'd buy it.
That way you can troubleshoot using a VOM without taking the nut off and disturbing what may have been a perfectly working connection.





"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_currents


There was also a fight over FM radio.
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=fm+radio+patents+widow&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Click to expand...

I have never heard of using a room heater or any device to load a circuit and then measure voltage drops.

Use the proper size wire for the breaker size and limit the number of outlet points to what is allowed by code. No testing should be required. In the case of heavy load devices if there is doubt as to what wire size to run over what length there are plenty of charts and calculators on line that will give suggested wire gage again no reason to do your own test.

As to wire nuts select the size based on how many and what size wires you have. That information is on line and also on the box of wire nuts. I personally twist, trim, apply the nut and then give each wire the tug test. The manufactures as far as I know say twist or don’t twist both methods will make a suitable connection if done correctly.

The 10A heater load with a VOM does the same as this
http://www.google.com/search?q=idea.....1ac.1.34.heirloom-serp..0.2.133.a9qL2rgO2U0

Testing shouldn't be necessary but does not hurt for a novice.
An intermittent connection may not show up for weeks so better to weed them out immediately.
An extension cord w/clip leads makes for a very long test lead for your meter.

One guy's remodel had a Wirenut connection with a five volt drop across it. IIRC it was #12, so once you estimate the length, with the amp draw you can figure the likely voltage drop.
The complaint was lights flickering; they didn't associate that with the compressor starting in the small basement fridge. Who would?

You can also use this to find out which outlet is downstream of which other, like if you want to put a GFCI upstream of other outlets.

Had a lady with an intermittent furnace blower.
The voltage drop across closed relay contacts at rated current should be less than 100 mV. Hers came in at 100 mV so I gambled on buying a new relay.
Smiles all around and a much lower voltage drop for the new relay.

Let's say you want 200A service. 5% of 240V is 12v so the minimum voltage at 200A should be 228v, depending on what state you live in.

After the sparky is done you load your 240V by switching on a 20A wall oven and the voltage measured at the panel drops by 2v. It should drop by less than 1.2v.

Therefore, depending on what current your neighbors are pulling, your PoCo (at that moment) doesn't support pulling 200A from its grid. But the electrician did the house wiring job correctly.

Mine dropped 0.4v but you need a meter that shows 0.1v out of 240v, IIRC, a 4-1/2 digit VOM.

Wuzzat? said:

Testing shouldn't be necessary but does not hurt for a novice.

Click to expand...

This may all be well and good as a science fair project or even a method of advanced trouble shooting for someone with a specific problem. If you want to start a thread to discuss this or any other advanced methods of trouble shooting electrical problems please go ahead and do that and we can talk about them.

The bottom line is billions of electrical connections in home wiring have been made and I’m sure I have made many thousands of them with wire nuts properly done. The rate of poor connections when procedure is followed is I’m sure well within a 6 sigma failure rate.

All this type of posts do in the case of a novice coming asking a few questions about adding a couple outlets is muddy the waters and confuse. The best approach I feel is providing the basics and good solid proven methods and allow them to solve their problem. Go to any job site and watch the workmen go about the task of wiring a home. All the connections are made with a few straight forward methods and the power is turned on at the end and it works. Testing and planning for faults that are very unlikely is not required.

Here is hoping we focus on the OP’s requests and stick to the topic. Again feel free to start and advanced trouble shooting thread if you have information to pass on to the more advanced members.

Go with this /\