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Old 11-16-2017, 09:57 PM  
farmerjohn1324
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You should be able to pull the circuits necessary through 1/2."

Keep in mind, you should have a min. of 2 appliance circuits, and there for counter appliances.

Unless it is a separate circuit, the 2nd counter recep. on the wall can be GFCI protected by the existing GFCI.



Instead of the inconvenience of a switch inside of a cabinet, there are countertop push button disposal switches.

The DW should have its own circuit.



You'll have a countertop work area either too one/or both sides of the sink so a cabinet mounted GFCI, on one/or both ends.

The make them tamperproof.



It appears that that is a drain line for a sink and need to be vented.

Any fitting with a compression cap needs to be accessible.

They should be glued fittings.
Both the GCFI's will be on the same circuit as the microwave. The microwave will be plugged in to an outlet in a cabinet. Is this okay?

One problem I see is that that same circuit is all I have available to bring power to the center island.


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Old 11-16-2017, 10:38 PM  
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Both the GCFI's will be on the same circuit as the microwave. The microwave will be plugged in to an outlet in a cabinet. Is this okay?
If the MW is installed in a cabinet, whether you have a trim kit to finish the installation, or not, it requires a separate circuit.

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One problem I see is that that same circuit is all I have available to bring power to the center island.
That's unfortunate, besides not meeting requirements.


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Old 11-17-2017, 12:40 AM  
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If the MW is installed in a cabinet, whether you have a trim kit to finish the installation, or not, it requires a separate circuit.



That's unfortunate, besides not meeting requirements.
Well it's not IN a cabinet, it's screwed in to the bottom of a trim piece with an outlet probably in the cabinet to the right.

So I need 3 circuits total here? I still don't get why the microwave has to be on it's own.

Tomorrow, I will have to map all the circuits in the house.

What is the guideline? Is it a certain number of amps or watts maximum per circuit?

My MW at home is on a shared circuit.

Is there any danger in just switching the breakers out for ones that can handle a higher capacity?

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Old 11-17-2017, 01:25 AM  
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Well it's not IN a cabinet, it's screwed in to the bottom of a trim piece with an outlet probably in the cabinet to the right.
This is becoming so convoluted, it's almost not understandable.

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So I need 3 circuits total here? I still don't get why the microwave has to be on it's own.
So far.

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What is the guideline? Is it a certain number of amps or watts maximum per circuit?
20amp circuits.

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My MW at home is on a shared circuit.
As discussed, if it is free standing on a counter.

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Is there any danger in just switching the breakers out for ones that can handle a higher capacity?
As has been discussed in your previous threads, 12ga. wire for 20amp breakers, 14ga wire for 15amp breakers.

You really need to pull permits for these ventures.
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Old 11-17-2017, 03:11 AM  
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I'm not sure about your jurisdiction, but in some cases having a power outlet in a kitchen island is REQUIRED by building code. I think 20amp GFCI is recommended. and I think garbage disposal should be separate from dishwasher, but I'm not an electrical expert. I'm still trying to learn the basics right now.

The reason for the microwave having it's own circuit is that it can draw a lot of power. If you have it sharing circuits with other appliances it can cause a brownout or shut off (it can trip the breaker). Before we had the wiring re-done mine used to cause the lights to dim when it was used.

A note on island plumbing, make sure that a studor vent (AAV) is allowed in your jurisdiction, is accessible, and that somewhere on that drain pipe there is an actual full vent to the outside. It only handles the negative pressure, not the positive, and the diaphragm inside can fail within 2 years and require it to be replaced. Also, you can do a loop vent meant for islands.



Although, from my understanding this still has the same trap arm length restrictions as regular trap arms (and that limit depends on whether you are under IPC or UPC). IPC allows for longer runs-- I think you can have a 5' trap arm before it needs to vent.
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Old 11-17-2017, 04:00 AM  
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I'm not sure about your jurisdiction, but in some cases having a power outlet in a kitchen island is REQUIRED by building code. I think 20amp GFCI is recommended. and I think garbage disposal should be separate from dishwasher, but I'm not an electrical expert. I'm still trying to learn the basics right now.

The reason for the microwave having it's own circuit is that it can draw a lot of power. If you have it sharing circuits with other appliances it can cause a brownout or shut off (it can trip the breaker). Before we had the wiring re-done mine used to cause the lights to dim when it was used.

A note on island plumbing, make sure that a studor vent (AAV) is allowed in your jurisdiction, is accessible, and that somewhere on that drain pipe there is an actual full vent to the outside. It only handles the negative pressure, not the positive, and the diaphragm inside can fail within 2 years and require it to be replaced. Also, you can do a loop vent meant for islands.



Although, from my understanding this still has the same trap arm length restrictions as regular trap arms (and that limit depends on whether you are under IPC or UPC). IPC allows for longer runs-- I think you can have a 5' trap arm before it needs to vent.
There is a vent in the cast iron pipe in the wall.

In my personal residence (not this remodel), there are no Studor vents in either bathroom or the kitchen. Can you explain that?
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Old 11-17-2017, 08:09 AM  
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There is a vent in the cast iron pipe in the wall.

In my personal residence (not this remodel), there are no Studor vents in either bathroom or the kitchen. Can you explain that?
That doesn't mean it was done to "present" code, or to code at all.

Not without you providing a floor plan and fixture layout.
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Old 11-17-2017, 09:18 PM  
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There is a vent in the cast iron pipe in the wall.

In my personal residence (not this remodel), there are no Studor vents in either bathroom or the kitchen. Can you explain that?
I'm not sure what you want me to explain.
Studor vents aka Cheater valves are a dirty fix for when normal vents are not possible or would be too difficult to do (either physically and/or financially). They are not ideal and are sort of a last resort or temporary fix until you can get proper venting. As I mentioned they only allow negative pressure and do not handle positive pressure so they are an imperfect solution. In some jurisdictions, studor vents are banned. It's likely the pipes in your current residence are either plumbed correctly and did not need the vents or they may be outdated and have S-traps and/or no proper vents. I don't know since I haven't seen the plumbing.

If you could come up with a general sketch of the layout showing distances of the fixtures from the vent stack, it could help. If the end of the trap in the island would be less than 5' from the vent stack in the wall, you could probably use the loop vent and run to that vent under the floor.
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:38 PM  
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I'm not sure what you want me to explain.
Studor vents aka Cheater valves are a dirty fix for when normal vents are not possible or would be too difficult to do (either physically and/or financially). They are not ideal and are sort of a last resort or temporary fix until you can get proper venting. As I mentioned they only allow negative pressure and do not handle positive pressure so they are an imperfect solution. In some jurisdictions, studor vents are banned. It's likely the pipes in your current residence are either plumbed correctly and did not need the vents or they may be outdated and have S-traps and/or no proper vents. I don't know since I haven't seen the plumbing.

If you could come up with a general sketch of the layout showing distances of the fixtures from the vent stack, it could help. If the end of the trap in the island would be less than 5' from the vent stack in the wall, you could probably use the loop vent and run to that vent under the floor.
The island will be about 12' feet away from the vent stack, so I'll make sure a Studor vent gets put in.

Why isn't one large vent stack enough for the whole house?
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:52 PM  
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The short answer is that liquid replaces air in a trap and without replacing that air, the liquid will not flow.


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