If CNN would have spent 15 minutes per hour on that subject there is a very good chance HRC would have won.
hey Canada !!!!!!!!!!
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If CNN would have spent 15 minutes per hour on that subject there is a very good chance HRC would have won.
frodo
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Elections are won or lost not by the voters but by the number of people that stay home and sit on the couch. Trump got more people off the couch than HRC did. The people that vote year in and year out are about equal.
frodo
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that is the trurth and a big problem,,Trump got them fired up, mad
but we still had 40% of eligible voter couch potatoes that watched tv
slownsteady
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Popular vote count would argue against the truth of this statement........
This whole "alternate facts" crap has to be resolved.
Popular vote does win in each state. Popular vote means nothing as the total vote. As we are under a system of representative government it wasnt intended to be equal. Every state gets two senators to do their bidding. That is not fair some would say as smaller states get as much say as larger states. We have this idea that we are one big country and what is good for NJ is good for NY is good for CA. the federal government is supposed to have the least influence in our life and local the most. It is now backwards.
There are all kinds of alternate facts, just as I mentioned above there are all kinds of truths. The facts are dependent on the beliefs of the person stating them. A great example given as fact by the last one was, if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor , if you like your insurance plan you can keep your insurance plan. Im not making this up it is a fact. I heard that fact a thousand times. It was an alternate fact.
nealtw
Contractor retired
Most of the British Commonwealth countries like Canada, DO NOT use the popular vote. Where you have electoral districts we have riding. The party that wins the most ridings form the government. If you went by pop. vote flyover country really would be flyover country and only the biggest cities would count.
Trump him self said he would have campaigned different for a pop vote, in other words he would have gone more for the big city votes.
The country can and must beat fake news. You have to watch what is being said live, so you know what was said.
Watch out for the guy saying one thing to the lame stream and something else to Facebook. It doesn't matter what he says, other than he is not being honest.
We laugh at these videos like when they change the words said by candidates in a debate but the technology is coming where that is getting better, so we won't know what is real or not.
If anyone thinks CNN did not cover Emails, they don't watch CNN. Taking about lost airplanes was a nice break.
https://arstechnica.com/information...dobe-voco-photoshop-for-audio-speech-editing/
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slownsteady
Well-Known Member
I was not arguing the fact that DJT won the electoral college. He did, and he is the President.
You said; "Trump got more people off the couch than HRC did." And I said; "Popular vote count would argue against the truth of this statement........". This implies that more people voted or DJT than HRC, which, by all accounts, is not true. Yet you stated it as a fact, so I used it to illustrate my point.
You can reply if you want, but I won't carry the point any further.
You said; "Trump got more people off the couch than HRC did." And I said; "Popular vote count would argue against the truth of this statement........". This implies that more people voted or DJT than HRC, which, by all accounts, is not true. Yet you stated it as a fact, so I used it to illustrate my point.
You can reply if you want, but I won't carry the point any further.
Agreed, what I should have said is more people got off the couch in swing states where there was some chance of winning the state. No one got off the couch in CA because Trump could have spent 100 million and maybe got a few million more votes he would have never won the state. What he did was apply his money in the area where he could get the greatest return on investment. Common business practice.
In my state PA I was kind amazed that there were 100 DJT yard signs for ever 1 HRC signs. I have a good friend at work that is a good Dem and I asked if he had a HRC sign in his yard. He said no but he had one on order and he was upset because he had to order it and pay 5 bucks for it and they were giving out DJT signs by the arm full to people. I saw yards with 10 in them. He asked why and got the same logic as why DJT didnt spend money in CA. HRC figured they had a lock on PA and put the money in other directions. I told him to get a 4x8 sheet of plywood and make his own, as I am always more impressed with a DIY sign than someone sticking one in the ground. He said Im not going to do that. After the election he missed 2 days of work because as he told me I just couldnt handle leaving the house. I kept my mouth shut and said good to see you back, but remembered quite a few days coming to work when I would have rather stayed home.
It is a bit saddening that all these shenanigans determine an election, not much different than the high school election I remember where the kid that won gave everyone a candy bar.
This election points out the tipping point theory and how we are right at the tipping point now. It is a tribute to the founders that they figured out a system of two houses and the way they were elected and what powers each have along with the executive branch that has been able to stay in check for all this time. We may not like the system but it has worked pretty well, and to think it was put into place in a far different time. What foresight.
The only other thing equally amazing is the dimension of a baseball diamond and how it has stood the test of time.
Mastercarpenty
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What is more amazing to me is that most of the people who created our system were what we'd consider under-educated today. Farmers, merchants, traders, and tradesmen with a few more highly educated ones tossed into the mix. That such a motley crew could see so deeply and thoroughly makes it clear that higher education isn't as good as having the ability to think in the first place. What truly made their concept different was by designing in a method for changing the government through amending the Constitution- that was a new idea totally unlike anything prior to it. They intentionally made amending it hard to do in order to force the people to think hard about what they were asking for. I personally think it's not used often enough or well enough.
If those folks were alive today I think they'd be kicking and spitting on the average American for letting our Country and it's Government slide as far downhill as we have. It is no longer "of the people, for the people, and by the people" but "of the rich, for the rich, and by the rich" with the people being seen by them only as a tool they can use to gain more power and more riches. It costs millions to run for a major political office now and no average American can muster that much money to get there. Conformity with one of the two parties is required of those in office; free-thinkers and radicals are shunned and intentionally kept away from the most powerful positions by those parties. And yet our founders were just that: free-thinking radicals.
We've lost our way and I doubt that we will ever find it again. As someone who loves this land and the people in it (but NOT the government running it) this deeply saddens me. The only solace I can find is that given my age I'll be dead before it hits rock-bottom.
In studying how Canada does things, I can see that we could learn from some of that and become better by following suit with those things. Socially, Canada is light-years ahead of us- they still see the value of their people instead of seeing them only as tools- and indeed it is the people who make the Nation, not the Government. I see Canada as the most wonderful neighbor anybody could have, but I know that feeling isn't reciprocal and I understand why. It's our fault, not yours. I'd love nothing better that to change that for your sake and mine, but I'm not rich, and I'm a free-thinking radical so the best I can give you is my honest heartfelt personal friendship and respect. I hope you understand.
Phil
If those folks were alive today I think they'd be kicking and spitting on the average American for letting our Country and it's Government slide as far downhill as we have. It is no longer "of the people, for the people, and by the people" but "of the rich, for the rich, and by the rich" with the people being seen by them only as a tool they can use to gain more power and more riches. It costs millions to run for a major political office now and no average American can muster that much money to get there. Conformity with one of the two parties is required of those in office; free-thinkers and radicals are shunned and intentionally kept away from the most powerful positions by those parties. And yet our founders were just that: free-thinking radicals.
We've lost our way and I doubt that we will ever find it again. As someone who loves this land and the people in it (but NOT the government running it) this deeply saddens me. The only solace I can find is that given my age I'll be dead before it hits rock-bottom.
In studying how Canada does things, I can see that we could learn from some of that and become better by following suit with those things. Socially, Canada is light-years ahead of us- they still see the value of their people instead of seeing them only as tools- and indeed it is the people who make the Nation, not the Government. I see Canada as the most wonderful neighbor anybody could have, but I know that feeling isn't reciprocal and I understand why. It's our fault, not yours. I'd love nothing better that to change that for your sake and mine, but I'm not rich, and I'm a free-thinking radical so the best I can give you is my honest heartfelt personal friendship and respect. I hope you understand.
Phil
nealtw
Contractor retired
That's all nice but mostly BS.
For the people, white male land owners were the people.
Thirteen different groups all with different ideas and all wanted their own ideas to be the end result. But they knew they had to give and take to get it done. They would not have got there if one group had dug their heels in and said no to everything.
Canada is a whole nother story and the set up does not have the checks and balance you do.
Mastercarpenty
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That's all nice but mostly BS.
For the people, white male land owners were the people.
Thirteen different groups all with different ideas and all wanted their own ideas to be the end result. But they knew they had to give and take to get it done. They would not have got there if one group had dug their heels in and said no to everything.
Canada is a whole nother story and the set up does not have the checks and balance you do.
Nope, not even close to being BS. Look up your references and see who attended the Constitutional Convention and why they did for a living. Look up what the cost is just to file for candidacy and get on the ballot to become a Senator- it is well beyond what the average person can accomplish. Yes, there was diversity and it was wide, but they found a way to fit everyone in even with all that. They were predominantly white males, but other than not having women involved that reflected the vast majority of who was living on the land taken from the natives (which is a while 'nuther story).
The right to vote was restricted to landowners yes, but there was (and could still be) some merit in that and it was intentional. Only a landowner has a vested interest in an area and will benefit or suffer directly by the laws they enact. It is not a simple matter to move away once you've spent years developing your property unlike tennancy where you can simply move away from any problems you manage to create for yourself then make the same mistakes there too with impunity. It also encouraged people to make that more full commitment to theirself, their future, and their nation by being a good steward of the world around you. It kept the dregs of society from running things. It kept the uneducated from doing that too since they generally didn't own land. In many other places it required an even higher position in society to make your input heard. They definitely knew what they were doing and did it that way for very valid reasons that weren't intended to be discriminatory which even today have some validity in them. As the people saw fit to do, that was later changed by the system they knew would allow that to occur. Restricting the vote like this was the best way to start and that was it's only intention- a start.
You are free to have your own viewpoint and opinion, but when you call BS you need to back that up with facts which you haven't done. And here you should consider how such a thing reflects on the whole site. I happen to be a Moderator and Admin on a few forums myself and that is what I and the others do there so I am not being hypocritical in suggesting the same from you. Set the standards and be the example you want others to follow through your own actions. Act as if the whole world is watching you because they can these days
Phil
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nealtw
Contractor retired
Nope, not even close to being BS. Look up your references and see who attended the Constitutional Convention and why they did for a living. Look up what the cost is just to file for candidacy and get on the ballot to become a Senator- it is well beyond what the average person can accomplish. Yes, there was diversity and it was wide, but they found a way to fit everyone in even with all that. They were predominantly white males, but other than not having women involved that reflected the vast majority of who was living on the land taken from the natives (which is a while 'nuther story).
The right to vote was restricted to landowners yes, but there was (and could still be) some merit in that and it was intentional. Only a landowner has a vested interest in an area and will benefit or suffer directly by the laws they enact. It is not a simple matter to move away once you've spent years developing your property unlike tennancy where you can simply move away from any problems you manage to create for yourself then make the same mistakes there too with impunity. It also encouraged people to make that more full commitment to theirself, their future, and their nation by being a good steward of the world around you. It kept the dregs of society from running things. It kept the uneducated from doing that too since they generally didn't own land. In many other places it required an even higher position in society to make your input heard. They definitely knew what they were doing and did it that way for very valid reasons that weren't intended to be discriminatory which even today have some validity in them. As the people saw fit to do, that was later changed by the system they knew would allow that to occur. Restricting the vote like this was the best way to start and that was it's only intention- a start.
You are free to have your own viewpoint and opinion, but when you call BS you need to back that up with facts which you haven't done. And here you should consider how such a thing reflects on the whole site. I happen to be a Moderator and Admin on a few forums myself and that is what I and the others do there so I am not being hypocritical in suggesting the same from you. Set the standards and be the example you want others to follow through your own actions. Act as if the whole world is watching you because they can these days
Phil
Let me re phrase that. I think it is BS
If you care to be a fact checker go start at the beginning of this thread.
I don't think a forum like this should have any political stuff because it is too divisive.
Some of the members that come here for help may be refuges, immigrants,
gay, poor white or black, and things that are said about them only because someone has an opinion is terrible.
So as long as that crap is allowed I will feel free to call BS when I think I see it.
frodo
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In comes Trump, A free thinking radical
I voted for him for the simple reason of what he is doing right now.
turning the place upside down,,,IF, we as citizens are not to late.
and IF Trump is the right person for the job.
we Might be able to turn this around..
Does Trump worry the bejesus out of me ? Yes he does, he is a radical SOB
but in my opinion, that is exactly what we need right now.
it is my opinion
we must get this immigration and refugee bs under control,
the reason we have limits on immigrants/refugees each year is so we do not
flood our society wih numbers that can not be absorbed into the melting pot
Preference Category EligibilityYearly Numerical Limit
1 “Persons of extraordinary ability” in the arts, science, education, business, or athletics; outstanding professors and researchers, multinational executives and managers. 40,000*
2 Members of the professions holding advanced degrees, or persons of exceptional abilities in the arts, science, or business.
40,000**
3 Skilled workers with at least two years of training or experience, professionals with college degrees, or “other” workers for unskilled labor that is not temporary or seasonal. 40,000***
“Other” unskilled laborers restricted to 5,000
4 Certain “special immigrants” including religious workers, employees of U.S. foreign service posts, former U.S. government employees and other classes of aliens. 10,000
5 Persons who will invest $500,000 to $1 million in a job-creating enterprise that employs at least 10 full time U.S. workers.
10,000
*Plus any unused visas from the 4th and 5th preferences.
**Plus any unused visas from the 1st preference.
***Plus any unused visas from the 1st and 2nd preference.
frodo
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if you feel so strongly about no political threads why are you always
posting in one...
you always pull this **** when someone posts an opinion that you do not like
but you are the one that throws out all the insults and attacks.:down::down::down:
when others do not.
nealtw
Contractor retired
:trophy:.................
C
Chris
Guest
Frodo, according to many this country was already on the right track and now is going backwards. I agree with them if the route of the country was to make it socialist or just another Canada or Norway. People have these allusions that that is what Americans want. Also many people like Phil are just told they are wrong or in this case spewing bs because others don't agree with their interpretation of America or government.
Imagine this, put an ad up for a meeting at a city office on how to fix a crime problem. All are welcome. It will cost you 20 bucks to park. Only people that show up are 6 white men. In the real world not a problem but in today's society that is wrong and racist, now we need to stop the meeting and find a way to get a woman, a few people of different race and an immigrant just to make it so called fair.
Imagine this, put an ad up for a meeting at a city office on how to fix a crime problem. All are welcome. It will cost you 20 bucks to park. Only people that show up are 6 white men. In the real world not a problem but in today's society that is wrong and racist, now we need to stop the meeting and find a way to get a woman, a few people of different race and an immigrant just to make it so called fair.
nealtw
Contractor retired
frodo
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I understand what you are saying,
my feelings, if you do not attend the meeting tough****ski
that is just like not voting, you snooze you loose
as far as the $20.00 parking, if the issue is important to you
walk a block, most Americans can benefit from the exercise.
I know i can :hide:
I do not agree with any type of socialist govrment, I want to remain free to do as i please say what i want and do as i want.
Canada is an open door to islam right now. I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT INVASION
and yes..it is an invasion of Christian countries not refugees fleeing isis
do the numbers. refugee does not add up
yeah i am rambling..
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frodo
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lol.....i am watching your link Neal,
what exactly do you want me to see on this?
what i see is a room full of people saying they are doing every thing in there
power to fix the situation, but the situation is not turning it self around.
they say they need federal dollars for programs, BUT refuse to follow the feds
laws on immigration. and will be loosing ALL of there federal dollars.
ie sanctuary city non compliance
at 10:00 what is this ''plan'' ?
the citizens seem to think the mayors office is not doing a damn thing
