Have to use oil enamel paint on interior wood doors?

We are painting our bedroom walls and ceiling; in the process we decided to paint our old stained doors. Prior owners did a bad job staining and finishing them, paint is probably our only way out. I have been advised to use only oil primer and final coat paint on these. other doors in the house probably have latex on them, but that was applied over various coats. These would be the first paint coat--probably have to scuff up the doors a bit before priming. Is oll paint the way to go?

Thanks.

Personally, I would just sand down the doors and re-stain them; it will take longer, but will come out much better in terms of visual decor. You can rent an electric sander or a heat gun and have it completely stripped in about an hour or two. This would REALLY make the whole job worth wild.

so easily as it's ingrained into the wood. We believe there used to be a nice cherry stain on there, and one of the owners years ago darkened the whole thing and sanded against the grain and made parts of the three doors unattractive.

D725A:

If the finish on those doors was applied before the mid-1980's, then there's a real good chance that it's varnish, and not polyurethane. In that case, I would simply clean the doors with TSP, and then apply a wiping polyurethane over them.

The TSP will etch the gloss of the varnish, giving it "bite" for the polyurethane to stick exceedingly well. A wiping polyurethane uses much smaller alkyd resins than you find in a polyurethane "varnish" or alkyd paint, and so it's not nearly as viscous and self levels very well so you don't get any brush strokes.

Maybe try doing that to one side of one door before you do anything else, just to check the results.

Also, you can use xylene to remove latex paint from doors. The xylene will etch the underlying varnish, but then you could try just apply wiping polyurethane over the etched varnish to restore the gloss. (I've done that before, and it worked well. I just want you to try in an inconspicuous spot before you apply anything over the whole door. You've got nothing to lose by trying this first if your gameplan is to sand down the door to bare wood anyway.

for your info no removing the finish. However my concern is with the stain, which is the reason the doors look so bad. If I get the finish off, then what? how much sanding would be required to get out that stain.

I am attaching 3 photos:
ed1 is what I call a cherry stain, looks great, the only one they didn't touch.
ed2 are the three bedroom closet doors, much darker
ed3 is closeup of one of the three doors; middle panel was messed up somehow, maybe sanding across grain.

Can you tell what kind of wood this is? We both LOVE old wood, oak floors etc but how would we get that stain out? or at least fix those darkened areas?

I can't tell the species of wood, but you can tell by the hardware that they're old doors, so I expect styles and rails are a solid hardwood and the panels are a furniture grade plywood.

I don't know that much about staining, but you are correct that wood stain does penetrate right into the surface of the wood, and the only way to effectively remove it is by removing the surface layer of wood, typically by sanding the stained wood off. There are bleaches you can buy to supposedly bleach the stain out of wood, but they don't work well, and they can affect the wood so that it doesn't stain either uniformly or predictably. (I'd stay away from trying to bleach the stain out.)

I think if I were you, I would look in your yellow pages under "Furniture Refinishing" to find out which of the lumber yards in your area stock hardwoods for the local woodworkers and furniture refinishers. Both the furniture refinishers and those lumber yards would know of anyone that makes or repairs solid wood doors. I'm thinking it would be much easier to have those doors taken apart and have the rails and styles planed down on a planer to remove the stained surface layer of wood. Similarily, you could probably have the panels replaced with furniture grade plywood rather than try to sand the stain out of them. Those probably won't be solid hardwood panels anyhow because of the difficulty in making such a large thin panel out of solid wood. So it'd just be a matter of replacing old furniture grade plywood with new furniture grade plywood.

Also, the furniture refinishers would be able to give you a knowledgeable opinion on why that staining job turned out kinda blotchy on the doors.

It's all about using the right process and products. You don't have to use oil based primers. There are some water base primer and paint products that eliminate the step altogether of having to prime your cabinets. They also don't stink like oil base and they're better for the environment. The process I'd use would be the same as is used with painting kitchen cabinets.

There are LATEX enamel paints for indoors.

Enamel is very durable and washable.

Don't use and EXTERIOR enamel inside because of harmful VOCs

Robbie:

The hardest latex paints are latex floor paints, and they simply aren't hard enough to stand up well on a working surface like a floor. Latex "enamels" are cross linking acrylic paints, and most top quality latex paints are cross linking acrylics. They're harder than regular latex paints, but not as hard as oil based paints.

Enamel is very durable and washable.

Click to expand...

Maybe go to your paint store and ask for enamel paint. The original "enamel" paint was made years ago when someone tinted a can of varnish in a paint tinting machine to give it colour and opacity. Years ago, varnish only came in gloss and semi-gloss, and it dried harder than paints did because it contained more plant resins (called "copals"). The result was a "paint" that dried to a harder, smoother film than you'd expect from a paint.

Since everyone wants a hard smooth coat of paint, some paint companies (notably Behr) have come to calling every darn can of paint they make and "enamel". What's in the can is paint. Behr calls it "enamel" because improvements in paint chemistry and additives over the past 10 or 20 years mean EVERY paint you buy dries to a harder smoother film than it did 10 or 20 years ago, so every paint (save the dead flat latex paints) can legitimately be called an "enamel". Still, what's in the can is ordinary paint that dries to a smoother harder film that the same company's paint did 10 or 20 years ago.

Now that polyurethane has replaced varnish as the clear coat of choice over wood, a modern day "enamel" paint would be a polyurethane floor paint, which you could make yourself by tinting a can of hardwood floor polyurethane in a paint tinting machine.

Well after slowly repairing the plaster ceiling and walls and painting the whole room, we decided we'd like to keep the old doors as they are--having removed a number of old paint drops on them--and wonder what kind of oil can be used on them: tung? linseed? I suppose a urethane may be a better less-maintenance-down-the-road option.

apparently these doors were stripped of the old paint and maybe not restained. hard to tell if any urethane or varnish was applied--assuming back in the 70s--finish is very dull. possibly they were never refinished.

thanks,

David

I would clean them with a weak soap solution (to remove any cigarette smoke that may be on them, allow time for them to dry, and then apply a wiping polyurethane to them using a rag.

Thanks Nestor. Another site has this to say, which might be of interest to you. note that subject discussed there is an external door, more subject to seasonal movement. also note the possible negatives on urethane.

Thanks.

"In terms of work involved, the polyurethane will probably give longer life without period maintenance. However, if you let the finish deteriorate you will have to do a complete stripping of the door. Tung oil requires periodic maintenance coats, usually yearly, but these are relatively simple - just clean and wipe on more oil.

If you like a high gloss look, you will never get it with tung or linseed oil. You can get a lustrous sheen, but not gloss. Many woodworkers feel that a polyurethane gives a somewhat plasticy look.

If you go the "varnish" route, consider a spar varnish such as McCloskey's. A true spar varnish is made from natural resins. It forms a durable, flexible coating. If you have a panel door, the flexiblity is important. The panels in entry and garage doors move with the variations of humidity with the seasons. The panels are purposely not glued into their slots. If they were not given room to expand, they would crack. Polyurethanes are very hard and brittle. As the panels move, the bead of coating where the panel meets the rail or stile breaks, allowing water to work its way into the wood. Then the sun beats on the door and vapor pressure is created in the wood. Peeling results. Pay attention to the seam at the bottom of the panel where it meets the rail. This is where water damage will first become evident.

Over the years, I have finished many new fine garage doors of redwood, hemlock etc. Often the manufacturer would put a label on the door stating that if polyurethane was used on the door, the company would void its warranty

If you decide of tung oil, make sure you are using real tung oil. Many products labeled as "tung oil finish" actually don't even contain tung oil.

Many people do not like linseed oil as it can blacken the wood. Some manufacturers have stopped using linseed oil as the base for their stains for this reason. Linseed oil has nutriant value for mildew.

However you decide to treat your door, do not forget the top and bottom edges of the door, especially the bottom! The cross grain cut of the door rails will wick water up into the door leading to failure of the finish and warping of the door."

I wouldn't recommend putting polyurethane on a wooden EXTERIOR door because oil based polyurethane is an interior oil based coating and dries too hard to have the elasticity needed to stretch and shrink with wood outdoors. However, you don't have the changes in humidity indoors like you do outside and so you don't get the dimensional changes in wood indoors like you do outside. Polyurethane will be fine on your doors inside.

The guy makes the point that "a true spar varnish is made from natural resins". Not too put too fine a point on it, but any true varnish is made from natural resins (called "copals") dissolved in a drying oil (like linseed, safflower, oiticia, Tung or other drying oil). Every real varnish is made by dissolving copals (which are the dried and hardened sap of certain trees) in a drying oil.

I recommended a wiping varnish because you apply it in thin coats using a rag. That avoids the problems typically associated with brushes, like brush strokes. And, if you ever wanted to refinish your doors, it would be the same amount of work regardless of whether they had linseed oil, Tung oil, paint or polyurethane on them. You'd have to strip those coatings off with the same paint stripper, and so the stripping process wouldn't be any faster or easier using a drying oil instead of polyurethane.

This business about having to maintain linseed oil or Tung oil annually is something I've never heard of, and it makes me wonder what he's thinking. Prior to modern alkyd paints, oil based paints were all linseed oil based, and consisted of pigments suspended in what they called "Boiled linseed oil, which was just linseed oil with chemicals added to make it dry faster when exposed to air. No one ever repainted their doors every year as this guy is suggesting was normal to do when using straight linseed oil as the finish. Putting a new coat of drying oil on your door every year would essentially be the equivalent of repainting it with a linseed oil based paint every year, and I've never heard of anyone doing that, presumably because it wasn't necessary to do it.

thanks very much nestor, i'll go pick up a wiping urethane/varnish and seems like i can do it once and be done with it. hope they sell water-based so the smell won't be too bad.

I would go with the oil based wipe on poly.

Hydrocarbon solvents fall into two classes; aliphatic and aromatic. The aliphatic hydrocarbon solvents like (propane and butane) have virtually no smell at all; it's the aromatic hydrocarbons that tend to smell a lot. To make low-odor paint thinners, they simply separate the two kinds of hydrocarbons, and only use the aliphatic ones for oil based coatings.

With the oil based wipe-on polyurethane, you know you're getting a product that's going to give you a hard, durable finish. The water based one might work fine for you, but whether the finish will be as hard and durable is something I really don't know. If it wuz me, I would go with the oil based wipe on poly just because I know it's going to provide a durable finish, whereas any other chemistry is something I wouldn't be as confident in.

thanks for the tips Dennis. I finally finished the job a month ago; used an oil-based polyurethane. Painting these old doors would have been a chore, and since the frames are very tight there could have been closure and sticking issues after. There had already been some kind of varnish on the door and probably some solvent residue so the finish doesn't look perfect--areas where it didn't take. next time I'd probably sand it down more or apply a tougher cleaner, but overall they look much better.

Tung oil dries to a harder film that doesn't yellow as much as linseed oil.

Neither Tung oil nor linseed oil dries to as hard a film as polyurethane.

If you want to get a hard glossy finish on those doors, I would use a wipe-on polyurethane to avoid brush strokes. I think Minwax wipe on poly comes in both satin, semigloss and high gloss, but I'm not sure because I've only used the gloss.

If the doors were varnished prior to the mid-1980's, you should be able to wash them with TSP to etch the gloss, rinse the TSP off with clean water, allow time to dry, and apply the wipe on Poly directly over the etched varnish.

my dog actually peed on my doors. Of course this made them smell. Got an answer.....no stripping necessary. Use KILLS or BIN as your primer and paint your color over that. Takes all smells away. Even pee! Another thing you can do right before hand is to take a spray bottle with 1/2 white vinegar (heat in microwave until hot taking care not to melt the bottle) then add 1/2 dawn dish soap. Shake gently. Spray and scrub. Then wipe down with water. This helps with smells

There are several things to consider before buying a solid wood door. Among the most important of these issues are the price of the door, the function of the door, and how much care you are willing to put into the door. All these things will affect the type of door that should be chosen to buy and install.

Anyone getting nailed by the lead laws. I am a roofer and I am starting to feel it. The laws just went to far.

Shane
www.roofing-maine.com