pier and beam and floor joist repair and leveling

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The probem with the contractors are the real good ones will be reluctant to get involved in the middle of the job and want an engineer to write the instruction or you find another like the one you had.
 
The probem with the contractors are the real good ones will be reluctant to get involved in the middle of the job and want an engineer to write the instruction or you find another like the one you had.

yea i know .thats the truth. finding a good contractor in my situation is proving impossible. So many things against me. Between being a disaster zone all good contractors are booked up , rest are price gouging like crazy. Then the few left want the easier faster money making jobs or new construction.Then to throw it on top i also push them away with my current situation with my last shoddy contractor that screwed up my house and didnt finish. Im almost at the point where i dont know what to do anymore. running out of options. Lucklily at least i have some experience in this work and most likely can do it myself even though i doubt myself sometimes on doing the bigger structual stuff. No matter what i always like to do all the research on doing everything before i do it even if i pretty much know how to do it or not. More minds together are always better then one. I thank you for all the advice so far.

I am a machinist/engineer myself so this stuff shouldnt be too hard. Although what i do is cnc manufacturing and cad design which is a bit different from home building. At least if i do it though things will be straight to the thousands of an inch since im use to working with much tighter tolerances lol.

I wish i could get past this structual stuff already and into the finish work though where i have plenty more experience. I have done tons of tile work, hardwood flooring ,drywalling,furniture building etc and damn good at that stuff.
 
"I wish i could get past this structual stuff already and into the finish work though where i have plenty more experience. I have done tons of tile work, hardwood flooring ,drywalling,furniture building etc and damn good at that stuff. "

Wait till you realize how much mold is coming off the wood. When you see black looking wood it means it's rotten, you can hit it with a hammer and hear the hollow sound too. Not only is it weak structurally, it's toxic. The black mold can be really bad for allergies, the wood
 
"I wish i could get past this structual stuff already and into the finish work though where i have plenty more experience. I have done tons of tile work, hardwood flooring ,drywalling,furniture building etc and damn good at that stuff. "

Wait till you realize how much mold is coming off the wood. When you see black looking wood it means it's rotten, you can hit it with a hammer and hear the hollow sound too. Not only is it weak structurally, it's toxic. The black mold can be really bad for allergies, the wood

Black wood?So what is your prefered remedy ,demo'ing the entire house and rebuilding from scratch?Moving out?Since what insurance gave us is a joke and most of it was lost with our shoddy contractor thats not a option.If i was rich i probably would just move out and buy another house but us middle class people cant do that. We once had a nice first floor with many nice things until a hurricane by the name of Sandy came through and we had to throw out everything we own. Its been over a year now of living in a bedroom with nothing but a microwave and mini fridge and i need my house back. Obviously you can see i am trying to do as much as possible. There are tons of people in our neighborhood who didnt have insurance that only cleaned there house with bleach,washed out electrical and went on living without doing and renovations.I am trying to do the right thing but realistically.

The only damaged/rotted wood in the house are in the 2 areas i am posting about. The house was gutted before the contractor started doing work putting in subflooring/drywall ect and no other walls are bad like these two. The wood color is all brown(not black) and dry (1920's lumber) except for the very bottom of these two walls which will be taken care of for sure. the house was treated for mold after the storm. Only black mold i found left was in one wall that was not gutted when treated. i have already taken care of that mold though and then sanded and painted the wall with clear zinnzer mold and mildew proof paint.The mold wasnt to bad either im thinking from pics of black mold iv seen searching the internet. It was just a few black spots up to the waterline. Im sure theres probably some more mold under the subfloor but i dont think its bad where i have to knock down my house or move out and the walls have also been dried out professionally so i dont think it would be growing. they brought in huge dehumidifier machines or whatever they are and ran them for days to remove all moisture. The waterline was up to the window sill in the pics.The SE said the house wasnt in bad shape structually minus the two walls that need to be fixed and rest of the floor joists that i didnt get to need sistering but he said theres no way it would fall down or anything other then that.

I think the pics and stupid stuff our shoddy contractor did may be throwing you off.Except for the very bottom the wood is old but fine.White spots on the wall in the pics are sheetrock dust and spraypaint. We told the contractor to remove anymore mold he may have found.Well to act like he did something he just took white spray paint and sprayed everything down.

If you got any advice on what to actually do id love to hear it but just saying your house is rotton and moldy isnt helping me fix much.

In this pic you can see the darkness of the wood is from age being built in 1920.When the wood is cut into its not hollow.There are only a couple studs that are rotted through and those are the studs that i am replacing on bottom of the 2 walls
 
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In your last photo it appears a heavy beam running the length of the building on the outside wall. Is that correct?
 
NYSandyVictim

I have been reading this thread all along and haven’t posted as you were getting good advice from others. I have gutted and rebuilt a couple of homes as old as yours or older and I’m also a tool maker by trade and a designer now so we have something in common. I can’t offer a great deal of technical information beyond what you are being given, but I can offer support as I know how a big project working mostly alone will wear you down, and working at the same time at a regular job and doing this part time takes a toll on you mentally and physically. From what I see in your photos you are making real progress and the work you are doing looks a lot better than the so called contractor you had. It’s a real shame people are taking advantage of a bad situation for so many people like that.

What you need is constructive help with the problems at hand and overall support for what you are going thru doing the project. What you don’t need is suggestions of problems you might or might not have down the road without any suggestion of what to do about them. The house I’m ripping apart over the last 6 months is a circa 1900 that’s been standing strong for well over 100 years and the framing is dirty and black and dry. And when I cut into it it’s just like yours as solid and hard as the day it was erected. When you get a whiff of that pine smell when sawing, I always take it in as it’s a sign of the good old strong bones your building has still.

You are taking all the correct steps and when you are done you will have something to really be proud of. During the process you need to stay focused on the rest of life and the truly important stuff like family and health also. It becomes a battle about time and not having enough of it and when you get a free couple hours we view it as I could get this or that done on the project. I find it hard to force myself away to just do something removed from the project like dinner or a movie with a special person, but you need to do that and come back with fresh body and ideas.

I have been working on this latest house with my girlfriends grandfather in his 80’s and a retired toolmaker and home builder. He has a saying he keeps saying each time we get a little step done he says “Every little thing makes it better.” After hearing that about a thousand time when I’m working alone I find myself saying it.

If I lived closer I would hope I would come over and offer a hand. Good luck I will keep reading as I find this thread very inspirational as I’m sure many others do as well.
Bud
 
In your last photo it appears a heavy beam running the length of the building on the outside wall. Is that correct?

Yup 6x6 sill beam running down the sides of the house that joists sit on . It has 16" wooden piers holding it up every 12' and a cinderblock wall between pier spans.
 
NYSandyVictim

I have been reading this thread all along and haven’t posted as you were getting good advice from others. I have gutted and rebuilt a couple of homes as old as yours or older and I’m also a tool maker by trade and a designer now so we have something in common. I can’t offer a great deal of technical information beyond what you are being given, but I can offer support as I know how a big project working mostly alone will wear you down, and working at the same time at a regular job and doing this part time takes a toll on you mentally and physically. From what I see in your photos you are making real progress and the work you are doing looks a lot better than the so called contractor you had. It’s a real shame people are taking advantage of a bad situation for so many people like that.

What you need is constructive help with the problems at hand and overall support for what you are going thru doing the project. What you don’t need is suggestions of problems you might or might not have down the road without any suggestion of what to do about them. The house I’m ripping apart over the last 6 months is a circa 1900 that’s been standing strong for well over 100 years and the framing is dirty and black and dry. And when I cut into it it’s just like yours as solid and hard as the day it was erected. When you get a whiff of that pine smell when sawing, I always take it in as it’s a sign of the good old strong bones your building has still.

You are taking all the correct steps and when you are done you will have something to really be proud of. During the process you need to stay focused on the rest of life and the truly important stuff like family and health also. It becomes a battle about time and not having enough of it and when you get a free couple hours we view it as I could get this or that done on the project. I find it hard to force myself away to just do something removed from the project like dinner or a movie with a special person, but you need to do that and come back with fresh body and ideas.

I have been working on this latest house with my girlfriends grandfather in his 80’s and a retired toolmaker and home builder. He has a saying he keeps saying each time we get a little step done he says “Every little thing makes it better.” After hearing that about a thousand time when I’m working alone I find myself saying it.

If I lived closer I would hope I would come over and offer a hand. Good luck I will keep reading as I find this thread very inspirational as I’m sure many others do as well.
Bud

Thanks Bud, helps a lot. You are right. For the last year i have done literally nothing but work and then work on the house from when i wake up til i go to sleep. It does take a toll on the body. My idea is that ill take a break once i have the structual stuff done and the floor closed up. I am worried and in a rush right now to get this stuff done before the weather starts really getting cold which is not much longer as its getting cold already. Right now we dont have the floor in and no baseboard heating in so when the winter comes we are really screwed if those things arnt done. Its not gonna be easy to live with no heat or floor in NY winter. It doesnt help that i have a really bad back too so im working through the pain everyday trying to do as much as possible.

I love your girlfriends grandfathers saying “Every little thing makes it better.” .Thats what i keep saying to my mother as well.
 
Yup 6x6 sill beam running down the sides of the house that joists sit on . It has 16" wooden piers holding it up every 12' and a cinderblock wall between pier spans.

No I ment above the wall, is that a beam above the header over the window?
 
No I ment above the wall, is that a beam above the header over the window?

oops sorry. Yes is appears to be a pretty big beam up there. The house wasnt built very conventionally back when it was built in 1920. They have even used stuff like railroad ties which that beam may be.
 
That beam seems to be doing all the work of a header, I would double up the studs on each side of the window and don't worry about the header over the window and just rip the junk out.
 
That beam seems to be doing all the work of a header, I would double up the studs on each side of the window and don't worry about the header over the window and just rip the junk out.

Still build a temp support wall though correct?
 
With the beam above, I'm not sure you have any need for the small header over the window, as long as that beam has good support on each side of the window. A temp wall wouldn't hurt.
 
So the contractor we got to come check the job out came back with a estimate and went over the job with us. Im thinking we will go with them. They seem like they know what they are doing and have a very good rep so hopefully it will work out this time. They only do structual work and not kitchen renos ect. They came with a structual engineer who took a bunch of load numbers ect for all of the house and job thats being done. They will be rebuilding the 2 walls completley. Also running new joists ,beams and pier under our slab boiler room which right now is unsupported from the last contractor cutting all of the joists there and not putting anything back which is causing the slab to crack. Lastly they will be adding a steel i-beam from the front of the house to the rear of the house on the 1st floor ceiling with 3 post going down to the main bearing center beam on the foundation. This was needed because right now we have in the ceiling 2x8's 16"oc spanning the full width of the house (20') and the second floor has always been extremely bouncy. Hopefully that should stiffen the house up immensely. The only bad part is they arnt really doing any finish work except for the outside wall that was bulging out which they will reinstall the window , reinsulate and drywall and try to redo the siding in that area. For the ceiling we will have to redo some of the drywall and relocate a ceiling fan as well as do the finish work building the new i-beam posts into the wall with drywall. Electrical and drywall however is easy stuff to do.

There estimate for all of this was 18k. What do you guys think ?Worth it? Im thinking just the i-beam alone would add a lot to the resale value of the house.I however dont know pricing for this stuff. They would be starting the day after thanksgiving.

I also just finished sistering or replacing all the floor joists on one side of the kitchen and adding cross bridging except for 2 joists under the point load of that broken wall in the kitchen which i am still a ;little uncomfortable to tackle yet.All new double 2x10's now held in with carriage bolts and pretty much perfectly level so where getting there little by little.They feel solid as a rock now. I calculated it to a deflection number of L1920 so that should be well strong enough for granite tile which needs a deflection of L720 and porcelin at L360.
 
It might sound a little high but the fact that they brought an engineer and went over the whole house is a big plus and you will likely have a house better than it's ever been is a plus. Make sure that includes an engineers report when done and take pictures of what's being done. That info is great at re-sale when inspectors can go over what has been done to the house. Floor deflection should improve slightly when you install the plywood subfloor.
 
I know 18k is a lot of money, but to me that doesn’t sound too bad for that amount of work and material. With them taking care of the heavy structural problem it will give you more of a secure feeling going into the finish work. You will be able to pace yourself better knowing the house is safe and sealed up at that point. Get it all down in writing as Neil pointed out.
 
Thanks guys. A bit more comfortable now. I wish they would start already. Its getting super cold. 29 degrees in my house right now. That brings up another question,Insulation. The shoddy contractor i had installed r13 fiberglass batt between the joists. Most have already fell to the dirt since he barely even stapled them in. I know batt shouldnt be used in between joists in crawlspaces anyway. What is the best way to insulate the subfloor. I have a lot of unordinary conditions making a insulation job a little harder then most.

First my house doesnt have a rim joist. As im sure you seen the joists lay on the sill beam and wall studs also go down to the sill beam. That leaves the joist cavities open to the outside. I would like to insulate these open cavities.Would rigid foam work here even without a rim joist.

second my crawlspace is really shallow. Too shallow for a spray foam guy to get under there and when the plywoods back on theres no way under there at all.

Third i live in a area at sea level so every once in a while there is sea water under the house in the crawlspace. You cant stop it from coming in as sea water goes where it wants even through the soil. So therfore any encapsulation is not possible.

fourth due to again living at sea level the foundation needs to be unsealed and have gaps for the water to get in/out by Fema code so not to pressureize the crawlspace causing to house to come off its foundation in a flood. We have these gaps between our piers and concrete block though which is below the joists/sill beam. I know they do make these auto opening/closing flood vents however they are too big to fit in our shallow crawlspace .

What are my best options in these circumstances?
 
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Here we would be required to cut and fit solid blocking in the rim joist area and then solid blocking between the studs at the floor level. Rim blocks for earth quakes so they don't lay over and stud bay blocks for firestopping. We usually see bat insulation under the floor, no vapour barrier as the plywood is a solid surface and the other side wants to breath. They often have chicken wire to hold it up and keep critters out.
We also see solid foam cut to pressure fit and sealed with some special glue or caulking, that might work for you but is would want to be installed so it is in contact with the plywood when your done. tricky but not impossible I guess. Thoughts??
 
I’m no expert on this subject for sure, but it seems if you are going to have salt water below the floor from time to time and draining out the crawl space is going to have to be viewed as the wet side of the insulating system. For me I would try and block vapor from the bottom up with some heavy plastic below the joists. I then like foam as Neil suggests. I don’t know if they can spray from the top filling the cavity the plastic would make or not. I have used the foam sheets cut to as close fit as I could and then used spray cans to fill the cracks. I’m not sure how you get below to attach a barrier? Maybe a system where you attach strips that hang out and then a sheet of foam bedded in with a line of spray foam. That way all your work would be from above. If you fit say 1” sheets against these strips maybe then have it foam filled? The experts are sure to post.
 
Here we would be required to cut and fit solid blocking in the rim joist area and then solid blocking between the studs at the floor level. Rim blocks for earth quakes so they don't lay over and stud bay blocks for firestopping. We usually see bat insulation under the floor, no vapour barrier as the plywood is a solid surface and the other side wants to breath. They often have chicken wire to hold it up and keep critters out.
We also see solid foam cut to pressure fit and sealed with some special glue or caulking, that might work for you but is would want to be installed so it is in contact with the plywood when your done. tricky but not impossible I guess. Thoughts??

The main thing that keeps the joist stiff and not able to rack or topple is that they are connected to the wall studs coming down on the side of each joist but yes there is also solid blocking stiffing on both sides in the center of each span. there also is crossblocking (looks like a wall plate but not one piece) at floor level of the wall studs. As much as i researched this was a popular way to build homes in the early 1900's. A rim joist seems a better idea to me though as it makes wall studs more open to the elements to rot over years.

From what the spray foam guy and a couple contractors told me so far the best bet is to insulate the perimeter (aka rim joist area) with foam board and seal with spray foam. I like this idea but still wanted to get other opinions on it. I like your idea with doing between the joists with rigid foam as well . Doing both should help a lot. I have seen a video where they nailed furring strips halfway up the joists so that the rigid insulation sits flush with the top of the joists.Looked like a nice trick.
 
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