DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Electrical and Wiring > What's the correct wiring for this switch/outlet?




Help Support House Repair Talk by donating using the link above.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-20-2017, 07:34 AM  
afjes_2016
Established Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: , Northeast PA - USA
Posts: 256
Liked 113 Times on 93 Posts
Likes Given: 114

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerjohn1324 View Post
Separate issue, but didn't want to start a new thread...

Can I always use a half sized single pole in place of a full sized one? Is there any difference at all?
If this is a separate issue then I have no understanding yet of what you are referring to as "use a half sized single pole"- My answer would have to be "Use a single pole what ?"


__________________

To the OP (O.riginal P.oster to this thread/topic).

If at any time you do not feel confident enough to perform a trouble shooting method that I suggest or feel you may not have the experience or comfort level to do so please ask questions before proceeding.
Electricity is dangerous and if not handled properly can cause serious injury or worse!
afjes_2016 is offline  
nealtw Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 02:23 AM  
farmerjohn1324
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 497
Liked 34 Times on 33 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by afjes_2016 View Post
farmerjohn please look at the two pics i posted.

One picture shows it was clearly a dead short. Caused by what? Maybe the sheet rock screw sticking out too far (other picture).

You said the breaker tripped which indicates a "dead short" (at least in this case). Scorching on the receptacle without the dead short indication which I show you would make me want to believe it would be more of an "over heating" issue than a dead short.

As I had said the hot terminal/wire came in contact with the side of the metal box. Yes, there may have been electrical tape around the receptacle but MOST people when they wrap electrical tape around a switch or receptacle will wind the tape around the device and then stretch the tape until it snaps. Over time the "elastic" tendency of the tape is to transform back to its normal length thus pulling back behind the receptacle or switch and exposing the terminals/wires again. When I wrap a receptacle or switch with electrical tape I always always always pull my tape to length from the roll then cut the tape with a utility knife. Doing this does not elongate the tape from its natural length and will not over time cause it to shrink and pull it behind/around the back of the switch or receptacle.

I would also suggest that you take some of the wires and cut the extra length of exposed copper back a bit. The exposed copper of the wire should only be up to where the wire wraps around the screw. It is clear that someone used a utility knife to strip the insulation back instead of wire strippers that make a cleaner cut mark.

When you were plugging something in to this receptacle and it caused sparks it should have "dead shorted out" each time and tripped the breaker each time. You did say it tripped the breaker but it should have every time if the box was properly grounded. If when you plugged something in it sparked it is also an indication that the receptacle was not properly secured to the device box. Meaning that when you went to plug something in it shifted the receptacle enough to the right to cause a "dead short".

Again, scorching without an indication of a dead short as I circled would lead me more to believe that it was an overheat issue. The dead short that I circled will look more like a "weld" mark. This shows the difference between the dead short and an over heat. Also if it was an over heat issue the insulation close to where the bare copper is on the hot wire would be melted. The scorching was caused by the sparking of the dead short.

From what I see and from what I explained to you above this seems to be a "dead short" issue and not an over heat issue. If you replace the receptacle and wrap it with electrical tape as I said I do mine and make sure it is secured in the box properly along with the fact that when you push it back into the box that the bare ground wire does not push between the hot terminal/wire and the electrical tape I would think there should be no further issues.


The outlet (receptacle) is not burned, it is scorched from the arc flash of the dead short.
Okay. I'm going to replace the whole thing with a plastic box and I'll cut the wires while they're out.


farmerjohn1324 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 02:25 AM  
farmerjohn1324
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 497
Liked 34 Times on 33 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by afjes_2016 View Post
If this is a separate issue then I have no understanding yet of what you are referring to as "use a half sized single pole"- My answer would have to be "Use a single pole what ?"
Can a 1/2" single pole breaker be used interchangeably with a 1" single pole breaker?
farmerjohn1324 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 07:27 AM  
nealtw
Contractor retired
 
nealtw's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Upper Fraser Valley, British Columbia
Posts: 23,428
Liked 2943 Times on 2579 Posts
Likes Given: 4844

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerjohn1324 View Post
Can a 1/2" single pole breaker be used interchangeably with a 1" single pole breaker?
Sometimes best you post a picture of the box and the breaker you have and the one you would like to use, so the pros can be the judge.
nealtw is offline  
zannej Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 08:18 AM  
bud16415
Fixer Upper
HRT_ADMIN.png
 
bud16415's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Erie Pa, Pa
Posts: 4,349
Liked 1447 Times on 1107 Posts
Likes Given: 779

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerjohn1324 View Post
Okay. I'm going to replace the whole thing with a plastic box and I'll cut the wires while they're out.
Great idea
bud16415 is offline  
farmerjohn1324 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 08:27 AM  
Snoonyb
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,480
Liked 429 Times on 381 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerjohn1324 View Post
Can a 1/2" single pole breaker be used interchangeably with a 1" single pole breaker?
Not necessarily.

You need to compare an existing breaker with that you would propose to insert, most important is where it plugs into the buss bar.

What you are asking is can a mini plug-in fit in a standard plug-in space.

Because you need additional circuits to power the kitchen, I would suggest a tandem plug-in, which affords you 2 circuits from the same buss bar.

However, in the case of the island you also need to be cognizant of which buss bar you are feeding from, to insure you do not inadvertently end up with 240V, instead of 2, 120V circuits in the same box.
__________________
Illigitimas non-carborundum
Snoonyb is offline  
zannej Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 12:58 PM  
farmerjohn1324
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 497
Liked 34 Times on 33 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoonyb View Post
Not necessarily.

You need to compare an existing breaker with that you would propose to insert, most important is where it plugs into the buss bar.

What you are asking is can a mini plug-in fit in a standard plug-in space.

Because you need additional circuits to power the kitchen, I would suggest a tandem plug-in, which affords you 2 circuits from the same buss bar.

However, in the case of the island you also need to be cognizant of which buss bar you are feeding from, to insure you do not inadvertently end up with 240V, instead of 2, 120V circuits in the same box.
This is the breaker I will be plugging in to.

Most of them are half inch.


Click image for larger version

Name:	1117171923.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	90.2 KB
ID:	15102  
farmerjohn1324 is offline  
nealtw Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter DIY Home Repair Forum Replies Last Post
outlet-switch problem j5697 Electrical and Wiring 6 05-12-2016 07:45 AM
3-way switch question - adding always on outlet aburt Electrical and Wiring 2 04-11-2016 09:15 AM
Outlet and switch miswired ajr4997378 Electrical and Wiring 12 12-20-2012 01:08 AM
Help with light/switch/2 Outlet wiring stevevz Electrical and Wiring 8 08-23-2012 07:13 AM
Switch/Outlet not working (6 wires) fb0605 Electrical and Wiring 5 03-23-2008 10:33 PM