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Old 01-31-2017, 12:26 PM  
bud16415
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Here is a thought for securing the ridge. Four of these for each set of rafters at the top with holes thru the ridge board with all thread and nuts. These would hold and pull the top tight as you pulled the bottoms back.


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Old 01-31-2017, 12:35 PM  
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My understanding Neal is they are leaning 1.5” in the center and tapering better near the ends. 1.5” IMO is too much.

As to the jacking I suggested that should only be done after the bottom is cabled tight and then even it shouldn’t be the main force resetting the roof it should just follow along taking some of the weight.

I think a heavy snow load or strong winds could be the tipping point. I wouldn’t want to be up there when the knee walls kick out. When they go they are going all at once. Add up the weight of all that lumber and count the nails in those collars. I would be putting a pin / bolt thru every one of them first thing.
I doubt that it near a tipping point, if you have ever seen a barn fall down.
But I do agree that fear here is a plus and every fear should be addressed.

Keep in mind that this took years to sag and the every board on the roof has 3 nails into every rafter that have all been stressed so moving this back into place will take some time as it will be 1/8 to 1/4" per day.

So you would brace one wall to the floor while you work with the other wall.
Chain from one side of the floor to the top of the wall or bottom of rafter with a turnbuckle and a couple Simpson hurricane tie downs to pull the wall back slowly.


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Old 01-31-2017, 12:47 PM  
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Here is a thought for securing the ridge. Four of these for each set of rafters at the top with holes thru the ridge board with all thread and nuts. These would hold and pull the top tight as you pulled the bottoms back.
Four for each set , or a set for four rafter sets.
If you drill thru the ridge you would be close to the bottom of the ridge so I think you could go just below the ridge but I like the fact that you have adjustment.
Jacking would be tricky to say the least. if you jack the center you would want to remove nails from the rafters to the walls and do both sides at the same time. O you could jack one side on an angle to correct the other side but the structure of the floor really comes into question.
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:51 PM  
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I doubt that it near a tipping point, if you have ever seen a barn fall down.
But I do agree that fear here is a plus and every fear should be addressed.

Keep in mind that this took years to sag and the every board on the roof has 3 nails into every rafter that have all been stressed so moving this back into place will take some time as it will be 1/8 to 1/4" per day.

So you would brace one wall to the floor while you work with the other wall.
Chain from one side of the floor to the top of the wall or bottom of rafter with a turnbuckle and a couple Simpson hurricane tie downs to pull the wall back slowly.

Yes and I was suggesting the brackets above for the ridge also perhaps. Drill holes thru the ridge and bend some all thread to pull one rafter to the other to close the gap at the top at the same time you cable or come along the bottom.

Yes I would go slow and move from one nut to the next half a turn at a time. Maybe give it a rest day here and there during the show. The permeant fix would then be to add more collar ties with thru bolts and leave the rafter pullers in place at the top.

I still don’t like it all sitting on that knee wall on the floor with the joists running the wrong direction. Would have to pull some of the flooring and get a look at what’s below.
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:56 PM  
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Four for each set , or a set for four rafter sets.
If you drill thru the ridge you would be close to the bottom of the ridge so I think you could go just below the ridge but I like the fact that you have adjustment.
Jacking would be tricky to say the least. if you jack the center you would want to remove nails from the rafters to the walls and do both sides at the same time. O you could jack one side on an angle to correct the other side but the structure of the floor really comes into question.
Compared to restructuring the whole building and using a center beam or tearing the whole roof off and building it over I wouldn’t go cheap on the hardware. I would put one of those ties on each side of every rafter and drill thru the rafter and use bolts to sandwich them together no screws. Might cost 50 bucks for each 2 rafters. The threaded rod could go right below the ridge you are correct. if the nails haven't pulled all the way out they should go back in.

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Old 01-31-2017, 12:56 PM  
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Do us all a favor and call an Engineer. You need more than cables on this with a knee wall and joists bowing out an inch and a half.
Its going to be 400 at the most for them to give you a documented fix, so if anything does go wrong, and insurance or the Building officials need it, you got it.

My money is on a ridge beam,with or without posts depending on what is below. We have done a 60 foot barn with one steel beam held up at the exterior gable end walls. Another was a pair of 18 inch LVL with a steel plate bolted in between ... I've done many.
That or your going to need some angle braces at the knee walls.
We did it all with pipe stagging and ladders.. not cranes, and it fit in right underneath the rafters. We lifted it at both gable ends with additional crib shoring under it. We cut a hole into the wall and slid it in with a bucket of the Backhoe.

Engineer is my recommendation.. its not an easy fix unfortunately with wood species, nails under load, snow and wind loads ect ect...

We can help with more advice from there.
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:19 PM  
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Do us all a favor and call an Engineer. You need more than cables on this with a knee wall and joists bowing out an inch and a half.
Its going to be 400 at the most for them to give you a documented fix, so if anything does go wrong, and insurance or the Building officials need it, you got it.

My money is on a ridge beam,with or without posts depending on what is below. We have done a 60 foot barn with one steel beam held up at the exterior gable end walls. Another was a pair of 18 inch LVL with a steel plate bolted in between ... I've done many.
That or your going to need some angle braces at the knee walls.
We did it all with pipe stagging and ladders.. not cranes, and it fit in right underneath the rafters. We lifted it at both gable ends with additional crib shoring under it. We cut a hole into the wall and slid it in with a bucket of the Backhoe.

Engineer is my recommendation.. its not an easy fix unfortunately with wood species, nails under load, snow and wind loads ect ect...

We can help with more advice from there.
I would agree with having an engineer, but all to often they suggest the most expensive fix.
A beam is not just a beam it is also point loads and footing and if there is a door below there will be more beam. All that gets very expensive.

The best bet is to develop three complete plans with the guesses that the common people make. And then call in the engineer and have him check the weights and do the calculations and approve or improve one or more plan.

I agree that a beam would take the weight and stop the pushing on the walls but converting the rafters to simulate scissor trusses would stop the push and leave the weight on the walls.
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:24 PM  
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Compared to restructuring the whole building and using a center beam or tearing the whole roof off and building it over I wouldn’t go cheap on the hardware. I would put one of those ties on each side of every rafter and drill thru the rafter and use bolts to sandwich them together no screws. Might cost 50 bucks for each 2 rafters. The threaded rod could go right below the ridge you are correct. if the nails haven't pulled all the way out they should go back in.
A complete tear down would not be needed cutting the sheeting to manageable pieces to fix like 10 or 12 ft would be my last suggestion.
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:24 PM  
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Do us all a favor and call an Engineer. You need more than cables on this with a knee wall and joists bowing out an inch and a half.
Its going to be 400 at the most for them to give you a documented fix, so if anything does go wrong, and insurance or the Building officials need it, you got it.

My money is on a ridge beam,with or without posts depending on what is below. We have done a 60 foot barn with one steel beam held up at the exterior gable end walls. Another was a pair of 18 inch LVL with a steel plate bolted in between ... I've done many.
That or your going to need some angle braces at the knee walls.
We did it all with pipe stagging and ladders.. not cranes, and it fit in right underneath the rafters. We lifted it at both gable ends with additional crib shoring under it. We cut a hole into the wall and slid it in with a bucket of the Backhoe.

Engineer is my recommendation.. its not an easy fix unfortunately with wood species, nails under load, snow and wind loads ect ect...

We can help with more advice from there.
He would need a 40’ long beam or posts running down thru the building at one place and then use two 20’ beams. Beam would be entering the building at about 20’ above ground. None of that is a problem but it is clearly out of the realm of what I could do as a one-man DIY project.

I agree seeking the help of an Engineer is always a good choice to make and if they recommend the above repair I would think they would also recommend a certified team do the work.

I have little idea of the cost of a project like this I know 400 bucks for the report I wouldn’t have an issue with if it was me. Can we give the OP a ballpark cost on this project? I know my sister just had a couple maple trees taken down with a bucket truck a 2 day project and it was 8 grand. Would something like this labor and material be doable for 20 – 30 k ?

As to cables and pulling my friend has some strap type pullers that he uses for tree work, ratchet type. I have seen him pull a one ton truck sideways on the street using it as an anchor point and another time snapping a 10” limb like a stick when he got carried away trying to keep it away from a house when cutting it. So you can buy or rent some pretty strong stuff to pull a wall with.

Again OP any ideas you get from me are coming from a non pro DIY handyman.
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:37 PM  
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A complete tear down would not be needed cutting the sheeting to manageable pieces to fix like 10 or 12 ft would be my last suggestion.
I agree it might not have to be 100%. He would get into quite a bit more that way at the least new shingles and all that.

I have to think it slid as a unit it has to come back as a unit. Pulling on one place the connection I don’t think could be made strong enough to move it all.

With a beam you will still have to do most of the above to push the beam up once it is in there and then something to close the gaps to get the wall to come in.


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