Replacing 3 way Switch

bud16415 said:

It is fairly common in the DIY world and wire is not cheap. I keep a supply of 12-2 and 14-2 around but would never use a roll of 12-3 or 14-3 up in a lifetime. So I would wire it just as shown here minus the double ups under the screws and a few other things like not having a ground. I have always marked the travelers though with red tape.

One thing that drives me nuts I think I saw in some of the pics here is when I see the wire wrapped the wrong way around the screw.

One thing I have done and the pros can tell me if it is to code or not with a jumper like this. If I don’t want to use the pigtails and wire nut I just leave the feed wire long and strip it in the middle and make a loop for the screw. Two wires come off one screw but only one thickness of wire. Then I strip the end and make a hook for the next connection.
I first started doing it in barns as a kid where we had a string of porcelain bulb fixtures and instead of cutting the wire a bunch of times and making connections we just stripped the wire without cutting. If you did get some corrosion the rest of the string wasn’t affected.

Click to expand...

This situation did not have 2 cables stacked. It was achieved with one 14/2

I think your side strip is fine, but I am no expert either.

Bud it is to code and I've seen it done many times in the past. Although it saves space I personally prefer the pigtails just because it is a time saver in case a switch needs to be swapped out. Just my personal preference.

bud16415 said:

...One thing I have done and the pros can tell me if it is to code or not with a jumper like this. If I don’t want to use the pigtails and wire nut I just leave the feed wire long and strip it in the middle and make a loop for the screw. Two wires come off one screw but only one thickness of wire. Then I strip the end and make a hook for the next connection....

Click to expand...

:agree:I know what you are saying as I do the same thing especially if I have a 4 gang box with 4 switches. I take the feed wire and make sure I leave it extra long along with the ground wire. I bound up all my grounds in the box with the long ground and wire nut them with the green wire nut with the hole at the end. There I will put thru the long ground from the feeder. Then I do a wrap around each screw with that one long ground wire as in a daisy chain. This way all the grounds can stay neatly tucked in the back of the box and less conductors doing to the switches. Then the long feed (hot) wire I will strip the insulation back and bit starting nearer the sheathing and slide the insulation towards the end of the conductor creating a bare spot in the conductor insulation. Then move my way down a few inches and do the same thing and then for the last switch just wrap the end of the conductor around the screw. Again, far less conductors going to the switches. Then I just connect all the load wires to the lights to the switches. I think it makes it much neater and easier to handle especially if you are working with 12 gauge. I have yet to have an inspector say something about it and I don't think it is a code violation. The reason why I say this is because doing it this way you are not over loading the box with all the extra jumpers, both ground and hot.

The other thing I have started to do lately to save me time is if I am finding myself having the wire nut a bunch of 12 gauge conductors to one wire nut I use a connector instead. They are a bit more expensive but they make it faster and neater than having the twist a bunch of wires together neatly and tuck them under a wire nut. I have a bit of arthritis in my hands and it is hard for me sometimes to handle all those conductors etc. So using the connectors helps me get it done. And another time I use these connectors is if I am working on a switch or receptacle etc where someone before me cut the conductors very short in the box. It is easier to place a connector on the short conductor and then put a jump in the same connector which will then extend the conductor for me making it easier to install the new switch or receptacle. Nothing like trying to put a GFCI receptacle in a box that has really short conductors. This way I just use the connectors with jumpers and tuck the connectors tight into the back of the box neatly, connect the jumpers to the GFCI and tuck it in the box.

First off I would like to apologize if I offended anyone in my posts in this thread. That was not my intention. Some of my posts as I was created others were added and they fell out of sequence etc. Anyway, again I did not mean to "ruffle" anyone's feathers. We are here to help the OPs. I was just very confused by the OPs original diagram and that was throwing me for a loop.

The biggest thing that threw me from the start was that I thought (according to the diagram) that the switch on the left marked old switch was the switch he was replacing which is a single pole switch with the new switch on the right which is a 3 way switch. I now see (almost like it just kicked me in the head as I am drinking my morning coffee) that the switch on the left is the other switch and the switch on the right is the replaced 3 way. DUH on my part people.

And what confused me even more was the romex on the right in one of the pictures look simply as a switch loop. Again, remember i thought he was replacing a single pole switch with a 3 way.

So in this case he is picking up the neutral down the line somewhere. I just hope if it was done this way it was on the same circuit. Otherwise you are sharing a neutral. That is the other reason why I was saying you needed a 3 wire going to the 4 way. If this was the hot then I would have wired it so the neutral from the hot in this box went down the line to the light, hence the need for 3 conductors.

Anyway, I hope all of you understand why I was getting frustrated and very confused here. Again, sorry if I offended anyone!!

afjes_2016 said:

So in this case he is picking up the neutral down the line somewhere. I just hope if it was done this way it was on the same circuit. Otherwise you are sharing a neutral.Again, sorry if I offended anyone!!

Click to expand...

I’m pretty sure his neutral is a continuation of the neutral found in the Jbox he first showed. Any time I use 2 cables for a 3 or 4 way I keep them side by side the whole way as if they were one.

I don’t think anyone around here felt offended in the least. This is a great bunch and everyone’s goal is to help the OP solve their problem. As it is a DIY forum and especially in the case of electrical you can’t be too careful. I often want the OP to just not solve their problem but to understand what they just did that solved the problem. More of the big picture. We should all try and take the few minutes extra to explain the why along with the what to do.

I learn something new every day here and know I know I’m to code with my daisy chaining along a wire. On a similar note when I’m doing outlets especially in garages and shop areas and the like I find it is just as easy to put in double outlets as it is singles, so I normally do that. For whatever reason, I don’t care to power the second outlet off the first using the other screw passing the current thru the brake out jumper strip. So I sit down at the work bench and make up a bunch of doubles prewired that will pop right in a double box with a single pig tail. In the future any outlet fails it won’t affect anything down stream. I even think if I was building a new home I would put in all double outlets like this in the house. But it would be really nice if they sold a quad outlet made in one block already connected up internally for roughly twice the price as a single.

I just leave the feed wire long and strip it in the middle and make a loop for the screw

Click to expand...

That is NOT against code.

afjes_2016 said:

First off I would like to apologize if I offended anyone in my posts in this thread.

Click to expand...

Thank you, I don't think any one was offended