DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Framing and Foundation > Rotten floor joist under walker-in shower


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Old 04-10-2017, 08:20 AM  
zerokreap
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Originally Posted by nealtw View Post
They should have cut an access hole from old attic into new, but if the plywood is still there, looking at it might not help.

What we want to know is just how bad everything is, if it is just the floor that can be dealt with pretty quickly but if it is walls, you are right in working a slow lift to allow things to go back in place.
Depending on what is wrong and if the walls and floor are separate it might be better to just stabilize the walls where they are.

If we just guess that the ceiling was say 2x6 joists with a 10 or 12 ft span. Does it look like they would have to land on that wall.
Then when they structured the new roof they may have put new weight on that wall.
I can tell you that the old flat room was minimal...I mean, I bet there was only about 6'' of space between the ceiling and the roof. There was a thin layer of insulation and some plywood, then a thick, rubber-like roof shingle. When they built the new pitched roof atop that, it was a really simple layout with the new weight fairly evenly-distributed across that established surface of the flat roof, which they did not change at all.

Like I said though, the next time I'm there I will do my best to figure out if the walls are sitting atop the floors or not.


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Old 04-16-2017, 08:30 AM  
mabloodhound
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Default Other things to consider

All of those floor joists are missing metal hangers. Especially the notched joists on the center beam. This has decreased their load carrying value and definitely need hangers applied while you're under there. Not a hard job, just time consuming.
And don't be too concerned about getting it all perfectly level. Getting the new replacement joists in place and up tight to the floor is most important. I would think a pre-poured footing on a solid base would work OK, as you suggested. The only part that needs to be close to level is the shower pan, or at least sloped so it drains properly.
On the many old houses I've worked on (and lived in) I make them straight and strong and live with the sloping character. This would also cause less problems with the roof line.

Dave Mason


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Old 04-16-2017, 01:01 PM  
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On the many old houses I've worked on (and lived in) I make them straight and strong and live with the sloping character. This would also cause less problems with the roof line.

Dave Mason
When I'm working with an old house, my level serves only as a a straight edge; everything else aligns with and references to the house as it sits. Plumbing drains are the only place ypu always need a level to ensure proper slope. Old houses may have been level when they were built but time changes that so you just follow along.

Phil
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Old 04-22-2017, 10:45 AM  
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Ok, so I installed 4 jack posts to raise the two adjacent joists by about 3''. This is really just the beginning, but because of my distance from the house, the work cannot happen as quickly as I would like. Basically, my thought on all of this is that I simply want to get this place up and running. I really need to get some new renters in there. So I am not planning on replacing the joist at this time, but rather simply reinforcing the surrounding joists. Of course, I would love to fix everything in the ideal manner, but it is really hard for me to justify pumping more money into this place than I already have...especially considering the fact that it's not currently worth what I owe. Maybe if the market recovers in my area, or I can get a bit more equity in the place, then I can justify spending $5-10k getting things where they need to be, but until that time, I need to limp along as effectively as possible.

First, it is important to know that I did not have much room in which to work under the house. This part of the house only has about 12-14'' of ground clearance. Luckily, where the problem exists is right next to a crawl space vent...and I am a thin, youngish fellow....so I was able to do all of the work so far through that hole. Of course, I am covered in bruises from all the time spent with my arms resting on the brick wall. Good ab workout though...a lot of planking, but I digress.

For the jack footing, I dug down about 10'' into the ground using an entrenchment tool - 2'x'1 perimeter. I then threw down about 2'' of sand, packed it, then 4'' of gravel, packed it, then another 1'' of packed sand. I then used some old bricks I had laying around as the base for the jack stands. I know it's not ideal, but there was not enough room for anything bigger. I suppose I could have poured a rebar-reinforced concrete footing, but I was worried that I might do something improper, then not have the ability to correct the issue...like if I needed to re-position or something. another where I placed the jacks.

I then positioned a treated 4x4 timber that I cut to about 3.5' atop two jack posts I was not sure of exact positioning, so was not able to screw the jack top plates in place before moving everything in place. So some fancy duck taping and my to plates stay in place on the jacks while I maneuvered everything into place. Once the timber was in place, I rotated the entire jack by hand to get the top plates snug against the timber/joists. I then screwed the plates into place to prevent movement as I applied real torque.

I jacked everything up 2-3'' without any problems. Didn't hear any creaking or cracking to speak of. I then placed another to jacks under the same time, just for good measure. When I checked inside the house, there were no cracks in the wall and the floor of the shower have moved back to where it was when the tile was laid. Unfortunately, even checking with a level, I raised one side about 2/8ths of an inch too much and the tile in the shower pan cracked along mostly grout lines on one side. Four tiles (these are small 1.5''x1.5'' tiles) broke along the uneven floor. Also, the mud deck fractured.

So now my question, can I take up tile along the fracture and simply use some thin-set to repair the deck and reinstall the tile, the re-grout? If so, that is what I will do. Then after everything is cured, I will turn the shower on full blast while I crawl up under the house and check for leaks. If I have leaks, I guess I will need to invest in a repair, rather I want to or not.

If no leaks, then I will spend a bit more time placing addition jack stands under other parts of the structure as a bit of insurance.
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Old 04-22-2017, 11:35 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nealtw View Post
They should have cut an access hole from old attic into new, but if the plywood is still there, looking at it might not help.

What we want to know is just how bad everything is, if it is just the floor that can be dealt with pretty quickly but if it is walls, you are right in working a slow lift to allow things to go back in place.
Depending on what is wrong and if the walls and floor are separate it might be better to just stabilize the walls where they are.

If we just guess that the ceiling was say 2x6 joists with a 10 or 12 ft span. Does it look like they would have to land on that wall.
Then when they structured the new roof they may have put new weight on that wall.
The walls seem to be outside of the floor frame on the add-on part of the house. They sit atop the floors in the original house.
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Old 04-22-2017, 02:29 PM  
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So now my question, can I take up tile along the fracture and simply use some thin-set to repair the deck and reinstall the tile, the re-grout? If so, that is what I will do. Then after everything is cured, I will turn the shower on full blast while I crawl up under the house and check for leaks. If I have leaks, I guess I will need to invest in a repair, rather I want to or not.

If no leaks, then I will spend a bit more time placing addition jack stands under other parts of the structure as a bit of insurance.
Sadly, too much jacking has cracked the mud. Guess you can try thin set. although hydraulic cement might be better. Then reset the tile and re-grout and hope for the best.
Good luck
Dave Mason


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