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Old 02-16-2011, 10:07 AM  
TheMcs
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Default exterior 1x4 trim

Hey all. I'm in the process of redoing all the exterior trim on my house, which we had "professionally" done last year. Horrible gaps, angles, etc are the issues I'm correcting. I've done the entire inside trim but this is my first attempt at exterior.

Two questions;
1 - what size/type of fasteners to use? The contracter used trim nails (same as I use on the interior trim) which I then started with, but now I question their integrity for exterior trim use.

2 - what type of caulking to use? DAP exterior was used last year, and already it has shrunk tremendously to the point of exposing gaps. Most of it was not painted over, does this make a difference?

Thanks!



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Old 02-17-2011, 10:15 AM  
TheDoorGuy
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Which Dap were you using? I use the Dynaflex 230 for the appearance grade areas
and have had good results with it. For the spots that I feel require more weather
protection I use polyurethane caulk. It's not as easy to work or clean up (oil based)
but it makes me feel more secure.

Regarding nails: Galvanized box would give you the best holding power. Just try
to set them flush with the surface and they should paint over ok.

Seal the end cuts of your trim and you will get longer lasting paint jobs and more
protection from termites and rot.

Good luck!



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Old 02-17-2011, 10:38 AM  
TheMcs
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Thanks Richard. I'll have to look when I get home at which DAP it was. I know I've got some 230 on my shelf but don't think that's what was used for the bulk of the project. Can I go over the cracked/shrunk caulking or do I need to remove it entirely?

Any recommendation for size nails? It's going on top of T1-11 siding if that makes any difference.

The trim was supposed to have been painted on all sides prior to installation, but I'm finding that didn't happen. I'm taking care of that as I go.

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Old 02-17-2011, 02:26 PM  
TheDoorGuy
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If the existing cracked caulk is not adhering well you should probably scrape off the
loose areas. Otherwise you can just lay a little larger bead over the corners, smooth it
out and it should be fine.

One thing to consider is your temperature range there. ...Do you get very low
or high temps?...Extreme temps might put a strain on the caulking. Read labels
or check with local suppliers for products that might be better for your area.
I only mention it because while I have been using the 230 for a number of years successfully, we live in a pretty mild climate here so perhaps it doesn't get tested as much as it would somewhere else.

Regarding nail size, 6d (2") nails would give you about 5/8" penetration into framing lumber. That would probably be sufficient. 8d(2 1/2") would be certain but might be
a little overkill. Try a few of each and see how it feels to you.

Good insurance by painting all 6 sides of your boards.

RC/DG
That would

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Old 02-17-2011, 03:57 PM  
TheMcs
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Thanks again. I'll plan on removing anything not adhered well.

Climate here is all over the place. Last week was close to 0, today it's about 80. The summers get up to 110-115 some years. I didn't know if the caulk failure was due to it not being painted.

I'll load up my frame gun with some 6d and see how that does. Certainly ought to hold better & longer than the finish nails that have been used.

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Old 02-18-2011, 07:09 AM  
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Sixes should be fine.
I would think that a quality caulk would hold up by itself but
a layer of paint will certainly provide more protection.
Sounds like you are on the right track to me.

Good luck with project!

RC/DG

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Old 02-18-2011, 07:42 AM  
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Applying reguler pine trim on the outside of a home that's just painted is going to rot out in time.
We just removed every piece of Kiln Dryed Yellow pine off of a home that was painted on all side with oil based paint 3 years ago. All of it was rotted at the ends where it meets the window sills and door threshols, also any place it was run horizontal.
The fix is to use 1 X 4 vinyl trim, never need painting or replacement.
Any place it runs horizontal we used small cove moulding to allow water to run down the wall and out over the 1 X 4, not lay on top of it rotting out the traim and siding.
The galvinized trim nails that go in trim guns say right on the box not to use as an exteria nail. We use #8 galvinived in predrilled holes. That way I can preinstall the nails in the holes and do not have to try and hold it in place, reach for a nail, and try to pound it in. The nails get set below the surface not flush as suggested, then get filed so there's only enough caulking to fill the nail hole. Never leave the caulking on the face of the material. A simple wipe with a damp stiff sponge will make a perfect finish.
Any home I have to work on with T111 I strongly suggest to cover over it with vinyl siding. Looks better, never need painting again, no more wood rot.
Alex 230 is the only caulking we use, cost more but cheaper then having to go back and redo it for free later.

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Old 02-18-2011, 08:27 AM  
TheMcs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Applying reguler pine trim on the outside of a home that's just painted is going to rot out in time.
We just removed every piece of Kiln Dryed Yellow pine off of a home that was painted on all side with oil based paint 3 years ago. All of it was rotted at the ends where it meets the window sills and door threshols, also any place it was run horizontal.
That's just fantastic news.
We removed the original 2x4 trim (from '78) and most of it was rotted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
The fix is to use 1 X 4 vinyl trim, never need painting or replacement.
Any place it runs horizontal we used small cove moulding to allow water to run down the wall and out over the 1 X 4, not lay on top of it rotting out the traim and siding.
I'll have to look into that. Unfortunately our remodel budget was shot by the hack we hired last year. I work 7 days a week late spring to early fall, so we figured it would be quicker & easier to hire this out. Now I'm having to go redo everything that I could have done right the first time. Where's Mike Holmes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
The galvinized trim nails that go in trim guns say right on the box not to use as an exteria nail. We use #8 galvinived in predrilled holes. That way I can preinstall the nails in the holes and do not have to try and hold it in place, reach for a nail, and try to pound it in. The nails get set below the surface not flush as suggested, then get filed so there's only enough caulking to fill the nail hole. Never leave the caulking on the face of the material. A simple wipe with a damp stiff sponge will make a perfect finish.
I've never noticed that.
Do you advise against using a nailer then? Is it because the vinyl boards need to be predrilled? I'm not sure I follow what you mean by filing the nail once it's below the surface of the trim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Any home I have to work on with T111 I strongly suggest to cover over it with vinyl siding. Looks better, never need painting again, no more wood rot.
Alex 230 is the only caulking we use, cost more but cheaper then having to go back and redo it for free later.
We looked at vinyl siding when we started in on this project. We had two siding companies tell us that due to the way our house is built (combination of T1-11 and stucco) that the conversion to vinyl siding would be difficult and not look all that great.
I'll make sure to do our caulking with the 230.

Thanks to you both for your time & expertise.
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Old 02-19-2011, 07:33 AM  
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Thanks for interesting detailed post Joe. We live in a pretty mild climate here and
have not had any problems with trim rotting as long as sealed on all 6 sides.
I'm sure that we have vinyl trim options, they are just not broadcast very much....
I'll check it out.
Thanks again!
RC/DG



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