DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum > DIY Home Improvement > Electrical and Wiring > Wiring new breaker in panel




Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-05-2011, 08:11 AM  
FLABobby
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1
Default Wiring new breaker in panel

Hello all-

New to this forum and eletrical work in general ..

After having built a room (also a new area for me.. thank you time life books! ) and wiring all the outlets and switches.. I tried to patch into the line existing (this space is at the back end of a large kitchen/den area) .. but that patch didnt seem very good (lights flickerd and I wondered I few things and then decided .. cuz I am not an expert of course) that because the distance from the new space to the breaker box was relatively short (15-20 ft thru the attic) that adding in a new breaker would be a cleaner solution .

Once I had everything ready I opened the break panel and.. please verify if I am looking at this correctly. but I do not see any ground here.











No other panels are within the house, the only other one outside is the main (?) next to the meter (only 1 breaker in there)

Am I missing something ? Want to be sure I am doing this properly and avoid any accidents. Any advice on how to properly wire the ramex in here would be greatly appreciated.



I can call a pro if needed, but I am trying to learn new things and save a few dollars when possible.

Thank you all
Bob



__________________
FLABobby is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-05-2011, 04:45 PM  
joecaption
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Hartfield VA, VA
Posts: 1,370
Liked 41 Times on 35 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Somethings very wrong here.
Normal wire colors are black, white and a bare wire ground in a panel box.
You have red, white, blue and no visable ground.
I'd call in a pro on this one.
Older panels rn the ground and nutrals (white) to the same buss bar, but newer ones have two buss's one for nutral and one for ground.
Your incoming big wires should have two going to the main lugs and one going to a ground buss but I do not see it in your pictures.



__________________
joecaption is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-05-2011, 05:15 PM  
kok328
Supporting Member
HRT_SUPPORTER.png
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Grand Blanc, MI
Posts: 2,221
Liked 116 Times on 101 Posts
Likes Given: 65

Default

Blue, Black & Red are hots which is Ok.
However, it appears to be a definite hack job. I see white being wired nutted to a black pigtail attached to a breaker. I can't see clearly enough but, I hope those white wires that attach to a breaker are actually Yellow in color which would be Ok too.
I do not see any ground buss bar either.
Grounding may be established elsewhere like a water pipe or something. You should call an electrician who will be able to see more than we can based on the pics posted.

__________________
kok328 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-05-2011, 05:21 PM  
joecaption
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Hartfield VA, VA
Posts: 1,370
Liked 41 Times on 35 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Now I see where they ran the main ground down to the bottom buss where all the whites are connected.
Not sure why anyone would have run all those mini breakers instead of full sized breakers.

__________________

Last edited by joecaption; 11-05-2011 at 05:24 PM.
joecaption is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-05-2011, 06:50 PM  
BridgeMan
Senior Member
 
BridgeMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Cottage Grove, Oregon
Posts: 738
Liked 75 Times on 67 Posts

Default

I don't see any circuits having ground wires in them (bare copper), nor does there appear to be a large copper ground wire anywhere. Two incoming line positives (hots) at the top lugs, one line neutral at the bottom.

Maybe time to call an electrician?

__________________
BridgeMan is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-05-2011, 09:36 PM  
kok328
Supporting Member
HRT_SUPPORTER.png
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Grand Blanc, MI
Posts: 2,221
Liked 116 Times on 101 Posts
Likes Given: 65

Default

There is no ground shown in any of the pics.
As Bridgeman has indicated, the large wire at the bottom of the panel is indeed the neutral wire for the panel. That's why all the neutrals are attached to that buss bar.

__________________
kok328 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-06-2011, 07:03 AM  
joecaption
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Hartfield VA, VA
Posts: 1,370
Liked 41 Times on 35 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Look around outside in the panel area and see if you see a grounding rod with a bare copper wire attached to it, it should have been routed through the wall to the panel. (Newer codes call for two rods)
I'd be curious enough to open up an outlet anywhere in the house to see if there's any ground wires running to the outlets also.

__________________
joecaption is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-06-2011, 09:49 PM  
JoeD
Contractor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 985
Liked 108 Times on 88 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Based on the multi colour wires used I suspect this system is wired in conduit. They are probably using the conduit as the ground for the circuits.

I still don't see the main ground in the panel however. I also don't see a main breaker so there must be a disconnect somewhere else. The main ground is probably in that panel.

__________________
JoeD is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-10-2011, 07:59 PM  
joecaption
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Hartfield VA, VA
Posts: 1,370
Liked 41 Times on 35 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Just a question for all you real electritions?
Why could a ground not be added by driving in to ground rods outside, run the bare ground to both then bring it inside and be connect to the open termial in the neutral buss. I know new panel boxes have two busses but all the old ones I see like this one were done that way.

__________________
joecaption is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-11-2011, 07:29 PM  
evstarr
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 27
Default

If there is a separate disconnect with main breakers outside, poco ground terminates there. This panel does appear to be conduit and separate conductors so there are no bare grounds. Neutral bus should be bonded to the panel and this panel should be bonded to the one outside. In locations where romex or other non metallic cables are used instead of emt, there would be another bus in the panel to accommodate those bare ground conductors.



__________________
evstarr is offline  
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter DIY Home Repair Forum Replies Last Post
Breaker Protection Plate...inside panel avatar2k Electrical and Wiring 6 11-02-2010 08:11 AM
grounding breaker panel fuzzman Electrical and Wiring 6 06-26-2010 08:10 PM
Breaker panel install jmac Electrical and Wiring 3 11-29-2009 02:55 AM
Exterior breaker panel for adding a barn jayhalfpipe Electrical and Wiring 3 11-01-2008 11:35 AM
Service/breaker panel capacity question... tenderton Electrical and Wiring 1 10-13-2006 06:08 AM

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS