some roof questions

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Roofing guns and framing guns are two different tools. Roofing guns use nails in a coil and framing guns use longer nails in a sleeve. They are not interchangeable.

If you have never done something of this magnitude, I would suggest finding a friend who is a contractor, or a framer friend or someone who works in the trade. It's great you want to DIY, but the potential for having catastrophic failure is great if you don't know have the knowledge to manage something of this scope. An engineer would be a good place to start. You have a lot of things to think about, like wind load, live load, load points etc. Just my :2cents:
 
I know a hand full of roofers ( commercial guys but I know they do residential roofs on the side , I helped on a tear off once ....thats work! ) who will help me and my good friend was a framing carpenter for years. My help isn't going to be a few suits selling insurance ;). All journeyman tradesman.
I'm personally a union sheetmetal worker. I'm a foreman for about 6-7 years about 20 yrs in the trade. I install mechanical systems on a commercial level . My field is more air handlers , roof top units , structurial steel , welding , job site coordination between trades. I personally don't see much wood. It's seems pretty straight forward so far really. My house is just a rectangle , I need to build a couple walls and set trusses. But I don't under estimate anybody's trade and my lack of knowledge. I'd like to educate my self as much as possiable . It's the little things ya know? And I know therea a ton of them because I learn something new every job after 20 years.

I guess my intension is to draft up my plans and have them stamped by an architect.
 
I've seen so many projects over the years where homeowners watch these 30 minute TV shows and think, hey I can do that stuff and it turns out to be a ...well, you know what.

Sounds like you have a nice project you're planning, just don't forget to add at least a third or more to the $$$ and timeline budget you estimate it to be.
 
Stanley bostich makes framing nailers that are resonable to bay and easily sold when your done. You can get them in a strip or stick nailer or a coil style, neither shoot roofing nails. I think HD and others rent these. Stick nailer is handier as you can carry extra nails with you when climbing around trusses.
I like having a chop saw like your friend has, on the job, you do have to build a table for it and it can be a little awkward on the site. Most framers here just use a skill saws but I like to keep body parts attached so I use the chop saw when I can.
 
Oldog made some good points about it being a big job. It's great that you have a friend that was a framer but all framers are not created equal. Is it his intention to teach you before hand, some help while you do it or take charge of the job. Will you have someone who can walk walls to stand trusses?
 
Oldog made some good points about it being a big job. It's great that you have a friend that was a framer but all framers are not created equal. Is it his intention to teach you before hand, some help while you do it or take charge of the job. Will you have someone who can walk walls to stand trusses?

My friend is no journeyman at it , I'm sure by his own admission. I am hopfully going to meet up with another carpentar friend Friday and go over some things . I know some others too , more acuantices . I wouldn't be opposed to hiring an expert in to run all of us around a weekend . Walking walls...prob not , tbh I'm stuck on the lull idea .I rig with these things all the time , I could pick your nose with one. A crane is basically not an option for me.

Some thoughts I'm unsure of

Does the first truss sit flush with the outside wall?
What's a good process for plumbing the first truss , and for.that matter the rest?
I have to price trusses out yet. What pitch is best?
When you guys set rafters you make that notch to sit on the wall , how does it work with trusses?

I know I don't have all the answers or know how. I have a lot of time . That's why I'm here . I appreciate your guys help.
 
We don't use a crane to stand trusses, just to have them delievered to the top of the house. Some have them delievered and leave them standing in a package. We have them layed down. On a house like yours we would have a package landed and layed down toward the center at each end. The gable truss is different from the rest and would be on top of each pile. This allows you to sheet the gable and add the look outs and drywall backing before you stand it up. As soon as it is up, reasonable plumb, a long 2x4 braceis placed near the top and streached back to an outside wall leaving room that it won't be in the way of aother trusses being stude. It is placed so the sheeting is inline with the sheeting of the house, this will required some one to stand on the wall and see that it is line up while someone nails it in place.
The seat cut is built into trusses not cut out. It is the end of the 2x4 that would be the ceiling part of the truss, they should fit to the outside of the sheeting front and back of the house, good luck with that. As they never fit you pick either front or back and make sure every truss fit the same along that wall. That does mean you need a straight and firmly braced wall.
Two 3" nails in each end to the top of the exterior wall do not nail it to interior walls untill after the catwalk is in, last. Carefull layout is very important as per instruction that come with the trusses
To hold trusses straight on layout a 1/4 is add across the top about half way up the slope, level and on the exact layout that is on the wall, front and back. these are temp so you nail one 3" hand nail in every truss, nail left up just enough to pull them later. they stay in place until they are in the way for the next piece of sheeting.
Let the questions begin.
I can't see how you could do this with out some one walking the walls.
If you think that is scary, the liner is the 2x4 that goes on the tales of the trusses usually about 20 or 24" outside the exterior wall althow this could likely be done off your forklift.
 
All the power equipment is a plus in getting things up on the roof. It always seems the projects I get involved with are limited on equipment and also manpower. If you find yourself trying to move and set trusses with two or three guys and no equipment you will be doing it like most of the DIY community. I have a few tips if you get forced into doing it with the elbow grease method.

The way I have always done them is carry and set them upside down (point down) gravity works in your favor that way. Before we get them up there have their locations already marked on both sides on the top of the wall and ahead of time we made up a bunch of sticks out of 1x2’s for our spacing with two nails started at 16” or 24” depending on your center distance these are placed a few places along the top of the truss to hold them to the one next to it until you get to the sheathing.

When we go to flip the truss up we attached a pole with a rope to the center of the truss pointing straight up with the rope attached to the high end of the pole two screws work well for this. Get the truss as close where it’s needed before flipping leaving room for it to flip. Now the guy in the center pulls on the rope and the truss turns over very easy and the guy in the center holds the pole to keep it upright and stable. He can lift on the pole and the other guy or guys can walk it down into place. Nail it into the wall and attach your sticks while checking center distance remove your pole and repeat. When you get close to the end you will have to flip and shuffle a few as you run out of room for your pole to do them one at a time, by then you will have something sturdy to lean them against.

I have set them alone with this method using a weight I hang on the pole after I flip them and walk them down using a step ladder going a little at a time end to end.

Leave the sticks on right until you nail your plywood. I don’t drive the nails for the sticks down and you just pull and toss the sticks as you go. The trusses can be knocked over a smidgen here and there as you go as they may have a little bow in them.

Like I said in the beginning a crane is nice but not always in the budget. Several buildings I have made we made our own trusses so the delivery thing for free wasn’t there also. Sometimes where a building is located you can’t get back to it with equipment etc.
 
Bud; with houses you have walls in the building that don't allow the flip. It's not usually bad for the guy walking the center, some time you have to build something to walk on. It's the guys on the end that have scary job. Sometimes we see lower scafolding put in for them. The whole thing can be like a house of cards and can easily fall over.
 
Good point. I haven’t done one by hand off the end of the building but have seen others do that. They run the top plate long off the end and then hang them upside down flip them one at a time and walk them down.

House of cards is very correct and why I like to use the straps as I go. Sometimes I see long straps spanning several trusses but when you take one of those off you have several loose trusses. I have seen some people use a 2X inside the truss to hold them but once you nail that in if your truss is bowed it’s hard to get it over to fall on the center of the end of a sheet.

I guess that’s why the old timers like my dad built stick construction he never had a helper.

I’m curious to hear how Neil and the other pros feel about Hurricane strapping trusses and or stick built even when code doesn’t require it. I personally think for the little cost and time involved it’s a good thing to do.
 
We're in an earthquake zone everything is strapped down, bolted down, bolted together, stress walls are added. Even bookshelves and refrigerators are supposed to be tied to the wall. We do have a strapshot gun just for hangers and straps.
I have seen two truss sets blown down with a gust of wind while men are working on them, one friend broke his neck when his fell knocking him off the building, scary stuff. It makes you understand that nothing can be trusted, temp braces must be in place at all times and as soon as you have a few up, even with the midline straps for layout you add angle brace on the top surface. If you keep all of that in mind you will be fine until you plumb up the gable which can't be done until almost everything is done and then most of the time all temp braces have to be removed to adjust it.
We never get to work on a house like this one, designers like hips, valleys, fake gables. We just did a big house with a 16/12 pitch three sets of trusses. Trusses on top of trusses, vaulted ceiling 18ft high and hand framed timber trusses. It was a test. The best part was the engineer spent hours inspecting it and past it without a call back.
 
Well i had the day off today and went down and talked to the building inspector. I then went into work and had one of our guys in the CAD department do me a simple layout. I think I will be using him for CAD from here on. I'll try and post the simple layouts when I get to a computer, id like your opinion on a couple things. Next step is to hit up a lumber yard .

I do have a couple questions , but I want to read over the posts a bit to be sure I'm not missing it.
 
I found some instructions that will be helpfull http://www.tpic.ca/english/pdf/handling.pdf
I also found this site about these people building a garage. They made lots of mistakes and did alot of it the hard way but it might give us things to talk about.
Mistakes on quick reveiw. Window framing, wall squaring, wall sheeting, angle bracing the trusses temp and perminent, catwalks and tie braces (not shown) Window installation ?
Done the hard way, handing up plywood over side (safer and easier from inside the building) sheeting the gable and building the ladder for the lookouts and tail liner last (all tails are not equall and liner should be put on level and straight before sheeting)
We are a little ahead here we also need to look at laying out for walls and wall construction, bracing and a bunch of other details
http://www.toadmama.com/ex_walls.html
 
One thing im confused about or reading wrong , you don't sheet any of the roof until all the trusses are set correct?

The first truss should be perfectly plumb and braced , are you saying I may have to tweak trusses as I sheet so they end up on center?

Im unsure of what catwalks and tie bracing refers too. The lookouts are bracing on the under side of the trusses? Lookouts and tailliners would be the portion of the roof that extends past the exterior wall?

I read the 2 links you gave me last night . Very helpfull , thanks for digging them up. Is like to understand all of your thoughts on thier mistakes , maybe I should start with the walls. I'm going to build 2x6 walls . I'm not sure what by code I will need as far as windows. Technically its already a 2nd floor living space , but will i be required to add windows , I'm going back to the building inspector todqy though for those answers. The wall I'm building along the front of the house will be part of 3 bedrooms. I was thinking of framing a sliding glass door in each as down the road I'd like a deck.

Hopefully I can upload a pic of my cad which will be a little more clear.
 
I will try typing slower so you can keep up.
After all the trusses are stud and nailed on the end walls, with a 1x4 running across the top section about half way up on both side on lay out
Then you add a catwalk, which is nothing more than a 1x4 running across the top of the ceiling portion on lay out, one ever ten ft of truss these run perpindicular to the truss.
Now you have a unit with all the trusses nail at the ends and bottom cord running straight. You nail the trusses to the interior wall. While some one is climbing around up there you add drywall backing to the top of the interior walls. Wall running same direction as the trusses can have a 2x6 on a 2x4 wall to catch drywall on both sides. Walls that are still not held in place stiff can have blocks nailed between the trusses and nailed to the wall,
Only then you can plumb the gable end with an angle brace( 14ft 2x4 from near top inside of gable down to the top surface of the ceiling cord and nail it to a 2x4 block that is nailed across 2 or 3 trusses down there) You don't do this while the wind is blowing as all other braces may have to be removed to plumb up the gable.
If you have done everthing perfect the other gable will be plumb just add the brace (good luck with that) it never happens, you will have to plumb that end too.
The liner is a 2x4 nailed on the ends of the truss tails.
As you know lumber comes bent a wavy all over the place there is reall nothing holding the top cords straight for when you nail the sheeting to them, you need something to help with that.
Having the liner nailed to the trusses on layout will keep that end in place. The 1x4 you have nailed across the top surface half way up will help but you will still want to check layout on each sheet
until you get close to the 1x4s. and then remove the 1x4s. Osb has lines printed on it to help with nailing.
Ridge block can be added before you sheet if you can reach the peak from inside is the best time. The trusses should have a space between them like 22.5. The trusses will have joiner plates in the way so 22.5 will not fit, we subtract 1/16" and find that works most of the time, get that wrong or have the blocks a little off straight and the layout will screw up in a hurry so that wants to be checked as you go. If you can't reach the peack you waite until the sheeting is up close but then the blocks will have to be cut to fit as the layout will always be off a little.

The look out is the 1 ft that sticks out over the end of the gable ends. I said 1 ft because that is easy anything more requires a whole lot more work and problems you don't need to get into.
There are a few ways to do this. what we do is . Cut four 2x4s exacly the same as the top cord of the truss and a bunch of 9" blocks.
After sheeting the gable end we add one of our 2x4s along the top nailed thru the sheeting into the top cord of the truss one. The top block on each side is the only one that is improtant for placing. They want to be placed so that the bottom corner of each is touching each other. One block every three or so ft is good and then add the other 2x4 on top of the blocks. We do all this while the gable is laying flat on to of the pile of trusses and then stand it up.

When I have time I will look over that link to see if I can find more things to talk about.
Two sliding glass doors. The city will require that you have keyed locks on then until you have the deck built. I would frame them in and stud and sheet over them until you have the deck built.
Vinyl or fibreglass decks are now considered a roof and should be built 6" below the floor of the house and the vinel decking wants to go up the wall and under the door, so the doors will have to be removed to put the vinyl down.
Headers that are 5ft and larger must have 2 jack studs on each side so a 72" sliding glass patio door (window) the rough opening is 72" wide and 80 inches high and the header will be 2 2x10s nailed together 3 nails every 16 inches 78 inches long. Real doors are different.
 
Thx for your patience Neil . Very good explinations and I'm pretty straight on what has to happen now. Couple questions.I was planning on looking into scissor trusses. The 1 story inlaw area is approx 7'6" from floor to existing joist. The 2 story area is approx 7'0" from floor to joist . This would give me a better ceiling height.

At 7' I wouldn't have the height to allow for the ruff opening of a slider correct ? Are there shorter ones?

My outside stud dimensions are approx 22' , so what is a typical soffit , 2' ? If I purchase a 4/12 roof , the center of my truss will only be apox 4' tall. I would be looking at a 26' end to end truss.
 
I would go up to a 6/12, the lower you go the more work will have to be done after they are installed, tee bracing and such that will be in the instructions to make them strong enough for what ever snow load you might require. and you have a better chance of walking around in them for flat ceiling.
I would go with vaulted on the lower roof and then you will need to go 6/12 outside and get 4/12 inside a little trickier to assemble but not impossible.
The upper roof I would build the new walls with full height pre cut studs knok the top plates off and add studs beside the old ones and bring them up to height if the old exterior is 2x4 just make the new studs and top plates 2x6 and later you could add the 2" where needed to bring the rest of the wall out to 2x6. I would raise the headers in the old walls too.
Vaulting in the upper roof only if it is one big room as usually they are flat and vault one room,say a master bedroom or bath. If you vault the whole thing then the interior walls have to be built later to meet the ceiling height.
On a 6 or 4 / 12 the tales close to 2ft usually. they don't want them to interfere with the windows, the higher the pitch the shorter the tales with an eight foot ceiling. With a nine foot ceiling you lower the windows to allow for longer tails. So yes you would be close to 26 ft give or take.
 
I have a diy friend that has been talking about the roof for his new garage for a while. He just called me to ask if he could be a grunt on the roof job so he could learn, I'm not sure how the insurance will work but I told him he could be a non working looky loo. Not a bad idea.
 
First floor exterior wall floor plan . (all existing walls)

larry 1st fl bmp.JPG
 

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