2 X 4's on top of poured basement wall?t

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papakevin

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Long story short, new to me house, knew it had a leak in the basement wall once (which the previous owner fixed). It didn't leak (still doesn't) however the drywall patch job was terrible so figured were issues, so ripped into the drywall

I'm bringing in professionals to repair the crack with hydraulic cement, so not concerned with it right now. I am however wondering about the overall construction of the house itself. The basement walls are poured. On top of the walls, there is a small 2x4 wall, which is what the main floor joists sit on. Is this standard construction? Seems a bit shady to me. Guessing it was done to allow for more headroom in the basement, which has 8' ceiling and is a walkout.

Should I be concerned? Photos of wall support and crack attached.

The previous water issue was likely due to a concrete patio with no slope away from the house. To deal with getting water away, I had a an overhang built on the back of the house. The house itself has 10' ceilings on the main level, so the overhang it built up high so it doesn't block the view out of the back windows. I will likely finish it into a four season room if we keep this house for long. I don't have a finished photo, but attached a picture of the work in progress since I mentioned it.

Let me know any thoughts you guys have about the small 2x4 wall on top of the poured basement. Thanks.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Repair1420949661.063547.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Repair1420949688.499080.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Repair1420949808.782218.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Home Repair
 
That water could come from anywhere inside the exterior wall and the brick siding. You need a professional that doesn't use hydraulic cement to fix this:help:,and to look into the cause a little deeper.
Meanwhile you need to know a few more things,
Any idea if there are any weep holes on the exterior brick wall sections?
Where is the exterior soil level in reference to the basement walls?
And besides the exterior patio, is there any other soil pitched towards the home with any kind of drainage to divert it away.

If these are all already taken care of, you could have an exterior weather barrier issue behind the brick wall..and no amount of patch to the exterior of the brick or foundation will fix this issue.
Keep us in the loop.;)
 
If the wood wall is above grade there should be no issues with it.
 
The wood wall and plate start at the point the brick start on the outside I think. The 2x4 takes part of the poured wall and the other is a shelf for the first course of brick. They wanted the look of the brick starting low on the house and only dug the basement as deep as they could for whatever reason. The short wall was to give head room in the basement. The second floor sits on a 2x4 wall just the same way only longer studs. I am not a builder but I don’t see any issues with the way things were done.

I’m not sure I’m seeing what inspector D is seeing maybe he can explain in more detail. It looks like there was a crack that has been patched and is holding. Is that the crack you want to have repaired again? I see a little staining up above. What is that area made from? Am I correct as to where the exterior grade is related to the inside basement?

Your new addition how are the flashings being done?
 
Any wood in direct contact with concrete should have been pressure treated.
Cracks are fixed with epoxy not hydraulic cement.
Any walls built on the inside should not have been in contact with the foundation.
Where does that wire run? If it's to an outside outlet it should have been 20 amp. not 15 amp. and there must be a GFI outlet outside or a GFI breaker inside.
It also should have been sleeved where it went through the wall.
 
From what I see, prety standard stuff. Regulat wood on concrete OK as long as there is a moisture break between, sill gasket. Foundation just high enough to get you 8" above the ground and the wall inside built with air gap to the concrete.

Problem I do see or suspect it the elevation of the deck. It appears to be above the level of the foundatiuon.

Does the down spout feed into the perimeter drain and is the perimter drain carry all the water away from the house or feed it under the deck.

Any patch on the inside will just close the crack on the inside the crack will still be open to the outsie and there by still absorb water into the concrete and still find a way in.
 
If the wood plate is the same level as the bricks I think you should be fine. From the lat image it appears the brick begins about a foot up from grade. 8" is the code minimum so you should be fine. Brick and 2x4 starting on the same level is normal.
 
JoeD said:
If the wood plate is the same level as the bricks I think you should be fine. From the lat image it appears the brick begins about a foot up from grade. 8" is the code minimum so you should be fine. Brick and 2x4 starting on the same level is normal.
Click to expand...

Joe: with the outside photo I tryed to figure where the bottom of the door and to me it apears to be about the level of the bottom of the brick. Now it the joists are 2x10s and you have a one foot wall on top of the concrete, then the deck should be a foot lower??
 
Ok guy's..I get where the levels of the brick are, and the flooring Joists starts.
However the issue we are looking for is the exterior soil level, and the flashing that separates the exterior brick wall, and the wood wall cavities.
The weep holes, or brick will let water behind that void, and leak into the basement upper wall if they have failed.
This wall is built all screwed up... anything could be happening as the wall never had an exterior brick shelf to divert the water to the outside.
I think this is leaking at the weather barrier which has a hole, or no flashing at the base.
http://www.bramptonbrick.com/technical/masonry-practices
 
inspectorD said:
Ok guy's..I get where the levels of the brick are, and the flooring Joists starts.
However the issue we are looking for is the exterior soil level, and the flashing that separates the exterior brick wall, and the wood wall cavities.
The weep holes, or brick will let water behind that void, and leak into the basement upper wall if they have failed.
This wall is built all screwed up... anything could be happening as the wall never had an exterior brick shelf to divert the water to the outside.
I think this is leaking at the weather barrier which has a hole, or no flashing at the base.
http://www.bramptonbrick.com/technical/masonry-practices
Click to expand...

What is the sheeting on the outside nailed to the studs, or is that concrete?
 
The top picture is where you see the water staining, that tells me it is comming in where the concrete foundation , and the brick that sits on that shelf on the outside meet. There is no flashing in that area is what I suspect that kicks the water out on the last course. This is a typical place that is never payed any close attention, yet it is the most important.
Any windows or additions with roofs and dormers are also never done according to industry standards..I find this commonly on leaking brick facades.

http://www.fortifiber.com/pdf/install_guides/Brick_Veneer_Flashing.pdf
 
inspectorD said:
The top picture is where you see the water staining, that tells me it is comming in where the concrete foundation , and the brick that sits on that shelf on the outside meet. There is no flashing in that area is what I suspect that kicks the water out on the last course. This is a typical place that is never payed any close attention, yet it is the most important.
Any windows or additions with roofs and dormers are also never done according to industry standards..I find this commonly on leaking brick facades.

http://www.fortifiber.com/pdf/install_guides/Brick_Veneer_Flashing.pdf
Click to expand...

I am not dissagreeing with anything you say, I just want to know what the bricks are siting on. Did they do some sort of backward ledge. I can think of two possibilies one it was there to lower the floor and then someone said lets raise the basement. The other would be brick was an after thought and a second pore of concrete this would leave a leaky joint that is below ground level.
So I want to wait for more info.:hide:
 
nealtw said:
I am not dissagreeing with anything you say, I just want to know what the bricks are siting on. Did they do some sort of backward ledge. I can think of two possibilies one it was there to lower the floor and then someone said lets raise the basement. The other would be brick was an after thought and a second pore of concrete this would leave a leaky joint that is below ground level.
So I want to wait for more info.:hide:
Click to expand...

Oh sure... now ya tell me..;-)
Yes, the ledge was done backwards in my opinion, and probably like you said, for a sunken floor, Or more likely, to install large floor truss's that were never used. That is the usual reason for an 18-24 inch dropped ledge. Then the knee wall was built to raise the floor height, and the brick sets on that outside lip because with an 8 inch foundation, the lip would be 4 inches and there is not enough bearing for any joists. Unfortunately...only the builder knows the real reason The bricks are on that outside ledge.. no doubt about it.
But that really has nothing to do with the issue of the leak, thats what I was getting at.:D Its all flashed wrong, and now impossible to get at.
But I'm with ya.. lets set and wait..;-)
 
Didn't get lost, but have been covered up with work. Appreciate all the feedback. We are slated to have good weather (meaning above freezing) this weekend, so I should be able to provide some more photos / details on the brick.

Regarding the crack in the basement, it currently does not leak. It was a previous leak which was patched and appears to be cracking again. I'm going to bring in a guy to do the two part epoxy thing as that sounds like what I need to provide a better fix before the drywall goes back up.

The outside of the house is all brick and the far side has a walkout basement. The patio shown on the back of the house seems like it was poured as an extension slab for future expansion and never had a pitch away from the foundation (which I'm assuming resulted in the water issue in the basement at some point.) I had the overhang installed as it seemed to be the best way to keep water off the pad and keep it away from the house. Not the cheapest, but the best.

After we had purchased the house, we heard from a neighbor there was a fire during construction of it. Not sure if that resulted in a full year down and rebuild or not. My biggest concern is the fact that the entire house appears to be resting on a small 2x4 wall on top of the poured concrete. This seems crazy to me. Yes, the basement does have full height 8' ceilings, but concerned structurally the entire weight of the house is on 2x4's.

Just as an FYI, some photos of the construction of the roof on the back of the house. The first floor has 10' ceilings, so I had them build it higher to keep the view.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Repair1421239430.869372.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Repair1421239469.479184.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Repair1421239520.000218.jpg





Sent from my iPhone using Home Repair
 
Many houses are 2x4 construction and all the weight ends up sitting on 2x4’s. In your case the weight of the brick isn’t resting on the 2x4’s only the inner shell with the floors and all the contents. Yes there is a lot of weight on the foundation going thru the studs but I’m sure they well within their limit.
 
That gives us more to look at. The 2x4 wall is not a problem. I would bet the slab had a slope before is settled into the mud.
Inspector was talking about the fact that brick will absorb water and it will come out between the brick and the house and there should be a flashing if the brick does not go lower than the wood structure and there should be weep hole every few feet across the bottom and above the windows and doors.
 
Yes, just as I suspected.. no weep holes, and the actual flashing is on the wrong side of the wall..
You should not even see that flashing at the bottom of the wall. It actually holds the moisture in... hard to believe, but that is how it works.
Go back to the links I put up so you can see how to do it correctly. http://www.fortifiber.com/pdf/install_guides/Brick_Veneer_Flashing.pdf
Pictures tell the story.:beer:
 
inspectorD said:
Yes, just as I suspected.. no weep holes, and the actual flashing is on the wrong side of the wall..
You should not even see that flashing at the bottom of the wall. It actually holds the moisture in... hard to believe, but that is how it works.
Go back to the links I put up so you can see how to do it correctly. http://www.fortifiber.com/pdf/install_guides/Brick_Veneer_Flashing.pdf
Pictures tell the story.:beer:
Click to expand...

Now he can't do it correctly, what is the fix?
 
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