HELP! - new wiring for garage

House Repair Talk

Help Support House Repair Talk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

medwar

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
I have a detached garage with remnants of knob-and-tube that I would like to rewire. There is a newer NM line coming out of the attic running exposed to the garage that has been cut at the house. The stub that has been taped off is dead according to my voltage sensor. There is a working motion sensor light near the stubbed NM.

At the house - there is a panel by the meter in the crawl space with only one 15-amp breaker. I cannot tell what it services – as nothing seems to die when I kill it. It looks like this:




There is another panel in the house with individual breakers. The main breaker for all is only 40-amps. The motion sensor light is on a 15-amp breaker along with the lights for several rooms. There is a free 40-amp and 15-amp breaker.

Only one receptacle in the house appears to be grounded (how is that?).

I would like to tear out the old knob-and-tube in the garage and put in several interior receptacles, one exterior receptacle, two interior lights, and one exterior light.

Questions:

1) Can I just extend a line from the live motion sensor (on the 15 amp breaker) at the side of the house to serve the garage? If that is not big enough – how do I tap the unused 40-amp breaker?

2) I imagine I should use conduit to bring the line to the garage below-grade – is PVC ok for that?

3) I would like to put in GFCI receptacles that are grounded. Is it possible to ground the garage if the rest of the house isn’t grounded? How do I do that?

4) What is the small 15-amp breaker in the crawl-space? Am I safe to work on the house if the “main” breaker is off on the interior panel

Thank you!!

breaker.jpg
 
Oh boy .... so many issues. I will tackle the undergrounding and let my buddies chime in on the rest. Needless to say, you have capacity issues and the need for grounding. But, if you want to run a line to the out building, here is a good primer on what and how ...

http://www.familyhandyman.com/electrical/wiring/how-to-bury-underground-cable/view-all#step1

If you live in a freeze-thaw area, the depth and nature of your underground line matters. Your line feed (hot line) matters. Yes, in theory, you could use the motion light as your source but it might be better to upgrade your service (40A ???) Modern homes are running 200A at the main so you are way under the typical home.

Keep researching and learning before you do anything half-way. This is a great opportunity to begin the proper upgrading.
 
The breaker by the meter, Can you just trace the cables coming and going to see what might be going on.
The free 40 amp breaker would be for a stove and you wouldn't want to use that for any lighting.
The 15 amp line should carry the lights you want but you could be getting to the limit of thwe 40 amp main.
GFCIs will work without ground.
I too think you should be looking at a new service for the whole house.
 
I think step one is to map your existing wiring so that you know what's on every breaker and which breaker is feeding which (possibly). Are you sure you found the main panel? You could be looking at a sub-panel.
 
Thanks y'all - I really appreciate it. Two things I should clarify:

1- (at the risk of getting laughed out of the forum) Im renting this house. The landlord says he'll get "his guy" to come look at it - but thats been in the works for some time now and I would like to get it done (and he said he would cover all materials needed).

2- I plan to run some big tools in the garage (table saw, etc). So far I have run them off the kitchen outlets with no problem.

I have always wanted to learn the basics - and this seems like it could be an opportunity. If not I will forget it.

So: here is the pic of the in-house panel:
house breaker.jpg

#1(15amp) is lights for 5 rooms and exterior and outlets for 2 beds.
#2 (30 amp) is outlets for kitchen, bath and dining.
#3 (20 amp) is lights and outlets for living and 1 bed.

Here is the panel in the crawl space by the meter:
meter breaker.jpg

I think there is the supply coming from the box marked "120V main" going through the meter to the panel, and then going to the box marked "120V house". Its only a 15 amp breaker - and when I kill it nothing seems to happen in the house....... What is this breaker for??

What do you think of this plan: get a professional to tap the unused 40amp breaker at the house panel (is that possible?) - and run that to a sub panel in the garage (where I can do the receptacles/ lights).


Thank you guys very much
 
This has been upgraded (loose term) sorta, I would be suspect of the landlords guy .
It dosn't sound like you know enough to get into it, no offence. Get your own guy to look at it. The 30 amp breaker is a deffinate no no in my book and 20Amp is questionable. The kitchen circuit may run your tools but the breaker won't kick out before the fire starts.
 
I'll let the electrical guys confirm this (or not), but if you have a Jbox before the meter, then what's keeping somebody from bypassing the meter? Doesn't sound kosher.
 
I'll let the electrical guys confirm this (or not), but if you have a Jbox before the meter, then what's keeping somebody from bypassing the meter? Doesn't sound kosher.

It looks to me like a homeowner could get his hands on unfused wired way to easy.
 
Thanks everyone. My weekend goal is no longer getting power to the garage - but getting the landlord to fix the house......

So california law says [the rental unit must "substantially comply" with building and housing code standards that materially affect tenants' health and safety].

Is this an obvious case of "substantial" non-compliance or a gray area? We have been living for a couple months now without any fire........

I appreciate all your help.
 
Absolutely should take care of the house first. If you can find the code for electrical and point out specific violations to the landlord, he has got to do something.
 
30 amp for kitchen outlets is a dangerous violation of code. Basically your wire will melt/catch fire before that breaker trips (probably why you could run your tools so easily). I also find it strange that your panel only has 120 volts in it. Are you sure that 40 amp you think is a spare isn't really the 2nd leg of the 120/240 (and the breaker wasn't permanently joined)? If that is the case, then that breaker setup is also a code violation. And with that meter setup, what is that?!! The landlord's guy couldn't fork over $20 for a meter enclosure and some connectors to make it remotely close to being Code? That deserves to go up on the Electrical Wall of Shame. I suspect the landlord's guy is one of those jack of all trades, master of none, because no electrician would ever do that. It certainly wasn't completed in a neat and workmanlike manner, that's for sure.
 
If the landlords guy dosn't think all this is a problem, you can talk to the inspectors your self.
 
The fine line that you're going to have to find is the "political" one. How to stay on the good (or least the fair side) of your landlord, while at the same time getting him to give you decent service. it sucks when the relationship becomes adversarial.
 
The fine line that you're going to have to find is the "political" one. How to stay on the good (or least the fair side) of your landlord, while at the same time getting him to give you decent service. it sucks when the relationship becomes adversarial.


I agree, don't rant like I did. I get worked up when I see things like that. I am an electrician and when I see these things I do not take them lightly. Safety and safeguarding of persons and property is the #1 intent of the NEC, and all electricians work to abide by it.
 
I don’t know where the OP lives but here we are serviced and buy our power from Penelec and some of our neighbors belong to a rural co-op. Both of these the first time they came to read the meter if it even got that far would call this in and they would come out and cut power at the pole. They would leave you a note and a number to call and when you got it fixed they would inspect it and turn you back on. You might be able to slide something past them inside the home but a meter without a box never.

It makes me wonder if the meter is feed off of someone else and its there for the landlord to keep track of the power.
 
looks to me like you need a 200 amp service panel with meter and a TOTAL rewire of the house

your wireing has code violations that are dangerous.

I am surprised the house has not burned up already
 

Latest posts

Back
Top