Extension of drain pipe and sewer pipe connector replacement?

House Repair Talk

Help Support House Repair Talk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

jmr106

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
322
Reaction score
54
Throw another shrimp on the bar-b...I just got another project. Nevermind, bbq is too expensive right now.

One day in the crawlspace while taking photos of what to do with the infamous heating/air system and water heater issues that I've been trying to solve, I hear the sound of water falling into a puddle. Far away, back under the corner near the kitchen. Nice and tight area about 1.5 ft.

I go down there with a camera and a couple of lights, and I take video and pics when I find this:

wum88p.jpg


No bueno. Nastiness. Old kitchen sink drain pipe. The kitchen sink faces the front of the house. Under the sink is the typical 1" or 1 1/4" pvc drain pipe clamped onto a metal pipe that goes horizontal into the back wall behind the cabinet, then takes a vertical dive into the crawl space because the bricks of the house are on the other side of that wall. It runs all the way from the front of the house to the perpendicular back end of the house. Nearly as far away as it could have gone. Awesome. That pipe (cast iron?) is pretty enormous considering that the actual sink drain is not anywhere near that big. Towards the back end of the house, it joins a much larger sewer pipe that it shares only with the toilet and apparently one other pipe. This house apparently has more than one sewer pipe. The washing machine drain has its own special sewer pipe that I remember running PVC pipe to (changed the old metal pipe to pvc) probably 15 years ago, which comes out of the house and goes into a 90 to go underground. Not sure if the hole rusted through or if someone snaked the pipe some years long ago and punched a hole in it. That makes me want to change it for fear of a clog in it further down the pipe, as well. It looks like virtually all of the water is coming out of the hole.


Oh yeah, so there's a little long pond of sorts that the water has carved. Probably 6 inches or less deep (I hope) and varying in depth to what looks like a few inches.

30u731c.jpg


So right after I made it back outside and just about screamed some incredibly loud, bad words that won't do the situation any good, I determined that I need to fix this. Fairly soon.

I conclude many things from this: I hate spiders and there are way too many right where that pipe is and all over the place down there. That water is bad to have down there in general. The pipe needs to be changed. That duct needs to be replaced and either got wet from the water running down the pipe (which has a slope, of course) and/or a field mouse or mice at some point tore the duct down. Probably both. Yet the air blows out in the kitchen vent as if the duct is fully connected, so perhaps only the insulation. Not that that makes it any better, of course. Why are there field mice in the crawlspace? Because some blanky decided to put up a homemade plywood door years ago with big cracks on all sides of it and they just waltz right in there. I'm working on changing out that door for a solid, sealed door and changing the crawlspace vents. I'm going to set off Raid Fumigators in the crawlspace.

I trace the drain pipe all the way across and it joins this pipe, which over the past month or so, has wonderfully started its own leak. It looks like it may be one of the joints that happens to be right next to the floor joist. Of all of the joints, it had to be that one. We are not amused.

16k9isl.jpg


I presume that this pipe is leaking probably because it has been so moist over decades in that big hole beneath it that I've been seeking a solution for lately. I've shown the photo to various people who had a bit of plumbing knowledge. A lot of people have told me that a cast iron pipe that size "wouldn't rust all the way through and probably came apart at the joints."

So I said, "Okay, that looks like a fairly simple pipe. Just a larger pipe for the sewer."

16k9isl.jpg
 
Last edited:
Had to break this up because it only allows 4 pics at a time.

So right around the area where the pipe disappears behind the duct (which some blanky from the HVAC company WRAPPED the air ducts around), apparently turns into a wye or tee (can't remember which it is).


wi3fkn.jpg


I'm quite sure (will double check) that the pipe going straight up is the toilet pipe. The second pipe continues over and branches off into two:

307p8w4.jpg


One of them goes over and does this. I think this is the old bathroom sink drain that is no longer used (they went pvc through the floor probably decades ago).

2em3qza.jpg


That second pipe I'll have to figure out where it goes. I don't think it is the tub drain (but that would be the only other thing in the bathroom, obviously). I remember seeing a small drain that I recognized as being the tub (which is over against the back wall a few feet behind and above the sewer pipe). It may be that it somehow turns into this larger pipe. I'll have to check and see.

I definitely need some advice for this. Would I be able to convert all of this to PVC myself? I'm a pretty small guy and can physically crawl over there with little effort where the drain pipe is leaking under the kitchen. I have a one-handed reciprocating saw of moderate size, which I feel pretty confident would cut through the old cast iron pipe. I have a 9" extreme carbide tipped metal cutting blade for cast iron, alloys and stainless steel. I would cut through the old drain pipe under the kitchen and basically use rubber clamps (?) to attach pvc to a "good" part of the pipe further back. Then run PVC all the way over to where it joins the sewer pipe (using metal pipe hanging material to support it along the way). Apparently I would have to temporarily leave a portion of the smaller pipe where it joins the larger sewer pipe in order to have something to attach the pvc pipe to, until I converted the larger pipes to pvc on another day. I have no idea where I should cut that at to get a good seal. Everything looks rusty. An unreasonable mindset somehow pictures tightening a clamp "too tight" and the big sewer pipe collapsing. That's probably incredibly unrealistic given this hulking cast iron pipe, even at 66 years old. Or, cutting through it and a bunch of sewage coming out. Probably unrealistic, as well.

That would be step one. That drain looks like it is elevated x inches above where the actual sewer pipe joins the toilet pipe, but I still wouldn't want anyone using the toilet or kitchen sink when doing this stuff. Two ladies (family) currently reside in the house, so that's uhm...going to be interesting trying to do all of this in a reasonable time frame without them freaking out over it taking so long. I'm sure a plumber would take a while to do it, as well...only at $100 or more per hour.

I presume that over hopefully a few days, that big puddle of water would eventually just dry up down there once the leak is gone. When I'm doing all of this crawling around, cutting (and blowing dust everywhere with the wind from the recip saw motor), I'll be wearing a half face respirator with P100 filters, covered eyes, etc.. I'm aware of Hantavirus risk from field mice, and pretty sure they are probably scurrying around in the crawlspace at night, so I'd rather not take any chances. However, cases here in Georgia seem to be rare and nearly non-existent based on the data that I could find.

Step two would be changing out the sewer pipe with large PVC, in a second go on another day. That drain pipe is going to be interesting to change and a lot of work. That's probably 20-25 feet of pipe from the leaking area to this point. I don't want any more leaks in that drain pipe since it looks rusty, so I'd rather just go ahead and replace the whole thing with pvc all the way down to the sewer pipe.

That big sewer pipe is a little intimidating.

My thoughts as a DIYer would be to maybe cut it about here and use a hose clamp to go to large PVC:
dzjnkg.jpg



I don't really feel like getting into changing that sewer pipe running under the ground. Part of my mind wonders, "If I cut this pipe, is that sewer pipe in the ground going to break somehow?" It is 66 years old and obviously the original. That dirt is so hard and packed that it is like rock, plus that goes under the foundation of the house and out into the back yard somewhere. I know that a plumber would probably charge thousands for doing all of this, so I'm trying to make it a DIY project since I'm about to pay thousands (which my mother doesn't have to pay) to flip an a/c unit and get it out of that stupid hole. Pretty much with the goal that she can eventually move out of this place and not have to deal with this nonsense anymore.

Think I could do it or am I biting off more than I can chew so to speak?

The toilet pipe itself seems to be leaking from above. As best as I can tell (will have to look again from the top of the wall), it looks to be from a joint. They've got that pipe packed in against that joint in a crazy way. Not to mention the fact that apart from the main toilet pipe, I've got to figure out where these other two "branches" go. One of them is the unused bathroom sink pipe. I don't think the other one is the tub, so that's fairly irritating. There's nothing else there. I'll have to take more pics to see where these each specifically lead to and knock on the floor or something to get someone else to see what it is under. They used these absurdly large cast iron pipes for little pipes in the house. Seems really dumb.
 
Last edited:
Boy, It just gets more fun.
Near the toilet one of those pipes will be a vent that goes out thru the roof. There should be another pipe vent out somewhere near the kitchen sink, you should be able to see them on the roof..
Frodo should be along for a look see, he can do in an hour what would take me a week to figure out.. It looks like you might have enough drop to run the kitchen pipe along the walls and stay out of the mud.
 
first things first


temporary, cut the sink drain, put a 20' 2'' pipe on it with a nu hub clamp, point it outside any way you can, so you can wash dish's while working
tie it in correctly later


as far as the water under the house,dig a hole deeper than the river, so it will all drain into the hole

get that water OUT from under the house.. once you have gotten out what you can.

remove the wet insulation. REMOVE EVERYTHING that has been contaminated by the sewer water

buy 2 50 lb sacks of LYE, coat the under side of the house with lye, make it look like it snowed.

you need to kill the bacteria...it is on the wood, concrete every where

after you have dusted the underside. layer the dirt with plastic/ visqueen this will protect you


buy a few https://www.coverallsdirect.net/dupont-tyvek-coveralls-ty122.html

and a respirator gloves, duct tape the arms and leg openings cloesd

your first job is to de funk the bio hazard under the house

after you got that cleaned up, the rest will be waiting

dzjnkg.jpg
 
Boy, It just gets more fun. Near the toilet one of those pipes will be a vent that goes out thru the roof. There should be another pipe vent out somewhere near the kitchen sink, you should be able to see them on the roof.

Ah, that's right. I forgot about the sewer gas pipe. There is one of those up in the attic, on the back side of the house. It is way over there in my non-favorite side of the attic where the space gets smaller and smaller and you have to crawl on nothing but floor joists.

As for one for the kitchen sink...the only other vent pipe that I am aware of (there aren't any on the front of the house) is the one that is oddly placed over a bedroom. I've always wondered what that one went to. In the attic, when it comes down towards the roof, it curves towards the kitchen's direction, so that may be it.



2mhapoh.jpg


Okay, so one of those is going up to that sewer gas pipe. I've got to connect that one. The other one that used to be for the old sink drain... I need to just figure out a way to cut it/cap it near the floor and will just have to leave it there. There is all kinds of foam insulation hanging onto that thing in the bathroom wall behind the sink, that I am sure of. Don't want to yank on it and cause any more leaks. I'll just have to try to cut it off as close to the floor as I can to try to keep as much weight off as I can. I can just leave it off when I run the new pipe. No point in connecting it. I just want to make sure that I leave the right one off in the process.
 
Post a question in framing about the joist and we can deal with that.
I think first you want to use Frodo to get a handle on the plumbing.
He can help you figure out all the bits and pieces you need.
 
first things first


temporary, cut the sink drain, put a 20' 2'' pipe on it with a nu hub clamp, point it outside any way you can, so you can wash dish's while working
tie it in correctly later


as far as the water under the house,dig a hole deeper than the river, so it will all drain into the hole

get that water OUT from under the house.. once you have gotten out what you can.

remove the wet insulation. REMOVE EVERYTHING that has been contaminated by the sewer water

buy 2 50 lb sacks of LYE, coat the under side of the house with lye, make it look like it snowed.

you need to kill the bacteria...it is on the wood, concrete every where

after you have dusted the underside. layer the dirt with plastic/ visqueen this will protect you


buy a few https://www.coverallsdirect.net/dupont-tyvek-coveralls-ty122.html

and a respirator gloves, duct tape the arms and leg openings cloesd

your first job is to de funk the bio hazard under the house

after you got that cleaned up, the rest will be waiting


I would be starting the first part of it (the sink drain pipe) early in the morning time on it's own separate day just to run the length of pipe itself and tie it in (temporarily) to the sewer pipe. Realistically, once I get that old sink drain pipe cut off (probably 4-5 foot long sections at a time so that I don't have a hundred pounds of pipe trying to hit me in the head)...I've had considerable experience with PVC. I can run that entire length of PVC pipe properly in 1-2 hours max, all the way down far enough to tie into the line. My main concern is just getting the rubber clamp connection portion on both ends to bridge the pipe. I don't want any more leaks, of course. That pipe is whole, so of course I can't measure the diameter properly from inside. The basement is one of those where you don't really want to go back into the house or get in the car to go shopping and buy what you need after the fact of cutting the pipe. I'm pretty paranoid about it, actually. My clothes get a deep wash in very hot water for a long time when I come back in, even if I was wearing coveralls.

Could I use some kind of hand-held siphon to get the water out once the pipe has been fixed? That dryer vent over there...I uncovered the vent cover just temporarily to see how close it was. I could run a hose out of that and it would be outside. That's maybe 10-12 feet or less from where the pool of water is.
 
what you need is Fernco Inc. P3001-22 2-Inch Proflex Coupling For Cast Iron, Plastic Or Steel
51udoDB1PKL._SX425_.jpg


tricks for cutting cast iron

go buy visqueen, spread it out over the top so you are laying on plastic, not funk

you can use a 4 1/2 '' grinder
you can use a saw zall with a metal blade
yo can use a hammer and crescent wrench

get the boi hazard water out from under the building any way you can. what ever works for you as long as it is not in your mouth or in your eyes

make sure you have no cuts or scraps visible to it....it is bacteria ridden and will make you sick.

i can not voice this loud enough and often enough

you must use care when dealing with this bio hazard. this is not a joke

get the lye on it. kill it
 
Last edited:
after. you get the bio under control

the picture you showed. that plumbing needs replacement
 
after. you get the bio under control

the picture you showed. that plumbing needs replacement

I think his plan is to replace everything below the floor. After he gets this under control, he will need help with the details for the big job.
 
I want to change everything down to where the sewer line enters the dirt. I just don't want to have to dig and replace any of that pipe if I can help it. All of that crawlspace dirt is so stiff that it feels like rock. Any ideas on determining what size pvc pipe to use? Some of the drain pipe has huge joints and then the pipe is much smaller. It looks like it varies.
 
I think his plan is to replace everything below the floor.

It is...but what are the odds of the pipe between the toilet and floor leaking in the near future? The actual leak seems to be coming from that joint right at the bottom of the floor joist, as far as I can tell. The toilet pipe has a somewhat small leak that just runs down and drips a bit with each flush. Compared to the kitchen pipe, which can pour out gallons of water into what is already down there. So I'm trying to get that one out of the way first and get it connected to the sewer pipe temporarily so that when I go to do the sewer pipe, all that I will have to do is bridge the pipes together and focus on that one area.

The base of that pipe is pretty low and easy to get to. The part of the toilet pipe up near the joist requires balancing on the wall. It is just too awkward to try to reach it from the dirt, so I won't be sitting on or standing on the dirt. I'll either be standing on the ground in the large hole or squatting down on top of the wall trying to do the best that I can. I have my "basement boots" that I wear down there...they're similar to the thick rubber knee-high boots used for fishing.
 
It is...but what are the odds of the pipe between the toilet and floor leaking in the near future? The actual leak seems to be coming from that joint right at the bottom of the floor joist, as far as I can tell. The toilet pipe has a somewhat small leak that just runs down and drips a bit with each flush. Compared to the kitchen pipe, which can pour out gallons of water into what is already down there. So I'm trying to get that one out of the way first and get it connected to the sewer pipe temporarily so that when I go to do the sewer pipe, all that I will have to do is bridge the pipes together and focus on that one area.

The base of that pipe is pretty low and easy to get to. The part of the toilet pipe up near the joist requires balancing on the wall. It is just too awkward to try to reach it from the dirt, so I won't be sitting on or standing on the dirt. I'll either be standing on the ground in the large hole or squatting down on top of the wall trying to do the best that I can. I have my "basement boots" that I wear down there...they're similar to the thick rubber knee-high boots used for fishing.

I saw the wet spot under the toilet and that's likely a leak in the wax seal under the toilet, I would go after the other one first.. When you do the big job you will want to change the toilet flange to plastic anyway and new wax seal all at the same time.
 
what you need is Fernco Inc. P3001-22 2-Inch Proflex Coupling For Cast Iron, Plastic Or Steel
51udoDB1PKL._SX425_.jpg



Can I buy this specific coupling in a home improvement store like Home Depot, Lowes, etc.? Or is it more of a special order deal? I see the Fernco ones at Home Depot. They appear to come in a shielded and plain.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Fernco-4...Neoprene-Shielded-Coupling-P3000-43/202245803

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Fernco-4...ic-Socket-Flexible-Coupling-1060-44/203310962

The shielded ones sure look a lot more sturdy and easy to work with, however.

All pipes will be cut with my sawzall using these blades: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-9...ng-Reciprocating-Saw-Blade-DS0908CF/205426168

Should eat right through that pipe, but I'm probably going to go through a few blades with the other pipe and eventually this big pipe.

Probably more than anything, I'm concerned about visually matching all of this stuff up and finding the specific type of pvc to connect it all. Probably just because I'm a bit of a newbie at large pipes like this.
 
Last edited:
That fitting is for 2 pipes the same size, I think.
You will want one that is for 2" cast to 2" pvc, or what ever you are using they are labelled.

To be sure you are cutting square on the pipe, wrap a sheet of paper around the pipe, line up the sides so it overlaps neat tape it there. cut along the edge of the paper.
That's a nice blade and it's new to me, the cheaper metal blades would work too, but I would go for that one. Don't go at full speed, take your time when cutting metal.
 
I saw the wet spot under the toilet and that's likely a leak in the wax seal under the toilet, I would go after the other one first.. When you do the big job you will want to change the toilet flange to plastic anyway and new wax seal all at the same time.

I vaguely remember a plumber changing out the toilet back when I was a kid. The base underneath the toilet (part that it screws down to) is like this big square plastic (or metal?) piece, I'm not sure. Am I going to need to replace that, as well? Or just the flange part? When I search for bases, I can't find any pictures that look like what I remember seeing. Just the flange and wax ring, right? I've never set those before, but it shouldn't be too bad. I guess I'll just have to wait and see when I get to it.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top