Multiple Lights Stop Working

House Repair Talk

Help Support House Repair Talk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

eharvey650

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2016
Messages
11
Reaction score
0
Hello to all. Looking for some information to steer me down the right road to fixing my electrical issue. I'll try to be precise in describing it. One evening had three light fixtures stop working at approximately the same time. They were all on and went out. They are: hallway bathroom ceiling light, vanity light (same bathroom), and hallway ceiling light (right outside the bathroom). I later discovered that a bedroom closet light (backside of the bathroom) does not work now either. I suspect that they are all on the same circuit. There is a total of 5 switches that control these 4 lights ( 2 for hallway light). Checked for voltage at all the switches, there is none. Reset all circuit breakers. Still nothing. Checked voltage of all breakers, everyone checks out ok. What should I be checking next? All other lights, outlets and appliances are working. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Ernest
 
You'll need to find where the hot pair feeds the circuit and it could be in either a switch box or in a fixture box.

If you have no indication of voltage in any of the switches, it's probably in one of the fixture boxes.

I would start at the ceiling fixture in the bathroom and because it "appears" that the loose connection is with the hot conductor, be very careful.
 
Just a thought and only because you mentioned bathroom and a sudden loss of power. Do you have a GFCI in the bathroom and have you checked it to see if it tripped?
 
When you checked the voltage of all the breakers, did you check the actual load side of the breaker, at the breaker, for that circuit? And as bud pointed out...check the GFCI.
 
When testing for voltage at switch locations, did you test hot to neutral and hot to ground? If you get 120V from hot to ground but not hot to neutral, you lost a neutral somewhere, possibly in your panel. If that's the case, check the connections on your neutral buss.
 
I agree with some others that have suggested this; since there is a bathroom involved please be sure (that if there is a GFCI receptacle in the bathroom), that the GFCI did not trip. Although a circuit for a bathroom may not go to any other room except for another bathroom does not mean someone did not do this. Some electricians do put the bathroom lights on the GFCI. I for one does when my customer requests it. I usually give them the option when wiring. Yes, putting the lights on a gfci may end you up in the dark if it trips but also when coming out of the shower or washing your hands and flipping the light switch you could get a shock, so therefore GFCI is handy in that case. Personal preference.

Please explain how you checked for voltage. Also, approximately how old is this house? Again, a GFCI may be the culprit but maybe not in that bathroom but somewhere else. I have seen set ups where someone wired a GFCI next to the breaker panel, wired to load and ran to a bathroom and to outdoor receptacles to save money; by far not to code. I have even seen a GFCI in a garage protecting a bathroom.
 
Last edited:
I should have mentioned that neither of my bathrooms have GFCI. House was built early 70s. I do plan on having them installed in the future.
 
If you have power at the breaker and all the wires are tight in their connections. Make a mental or written list of everything that is not working and turn that breaker off and see what else turn off, there could be a loose connection in one of those boxes.
If you don't find a loose connection in a good box then start taking things apart in the switches and light fixtures and outlets. You are looking for a live pair with a loose connection.
Start with the closest to the breaker box.
 
You need to let us know how you checked for voltage first.

Even though you do not have GFCI receptacles in the bathroom please check other areas of the house. I have found some homes that have GFCI protection in the bathroom by a GFCI in a garage or basement. Yes, this is not code but this does happen. Find all GFCIs in your home first, be sure they are all reset and have power. Doing this first will be far faster and easier in troubleshooting.

Then be sure you have voltage on the circuit from the panel (be sure you know what circuit you are dealing with).

If you take apart any switches or receptacles be sure you take pictures and or notes so when you put them back together you don't complicate the issue with more.

A very big culprit is usually receptacles that were installed via "back stab" instead of the conductor being placed under the screw of the receptacle. Again, also check all your connections, wire nuts are tight etc. Open each box whether if be switch or receptacle and check your connections there. You may find one box that has power coming in to it but not going back out causing the problem. I do this first before I start taking apart ceiling fixtures that are not functioning simply because most times it is a switch or receptacle that causes the issue.

Also when you take apart switches (especially if there is a black and white wire going to the switch) only test from both black to ground OR white to ground. Testing from black to white will not tell you anything as it is probably a switch loop and many people then think that is their problem.

When you take apart switch boxes especially if there are more than one switch some people get confused as they find power coming into the box and still the lights/receptacles are still not working. This could be because there are two separate circuits coming into one box. When I wire I never bring in more than one circuit to the same box.

If you are absolutely sure you know what breaker you are dealing with and you are familiar with removing a wire from a breaker try switching breakers. Disconnect the black from the breaker in question, connect it to another temporarily and see if you then have power.

If you find any of the let's say receptacles have 120v going from black (hot) to ground but not neutral to hot then you are looking for a loose neutral.

Check the affected breaker, follow where the romex comes into the panel and find the neutral. Check the neutral connection at the neutral bar and be sure it is secure.

Again, do not attempt any work in the panel unless you are familiar with doing so. And remember, even if you shut off the main breaker the lugs coming into the panel are STILL HOT!!

Once you do all this and get some results we can then guide you a bit better as to what your next step is.

I may have included things in here you may already know but I don't and others here don't know your skill level or ability working with electric.
 
When testing for voltage at switch locations, did you test hot to neutral and hot to ground? If you get 120V from hot to ground but not hot to neutral, you lost a neutral somewhere, possibly in your panel. If that's the case, check the connections on your neutral buss.


I haven't tested any connections at the switches with a multimeter, only with a non contact voltage alert device to see if any wires were getting power. None of the switches box light up. The bathroom ceiling light seems to be were power enters from breaker. It has three 3 separate conduits of wires in there. The vanity light has 1 and the hallway light has 2 (probably because it has a switch upstairs and downstairs).
 
I haven't tested any connections at the switches with a multimeter, only with a non contact voltage alert device to see if any wires were getting power. None of the switches box light up. The bathroom ceiling light seems to be were power enters from breaker. It has three 3 separate conduits of wires in there. The vanity light has 1 and the hallway light has 2 (probably because it has a switch upstairs and downstairs).

Do not rely mainly on a "contact tester" they can give you incorrect results at times.

Again, before you start anywhere else are you getting power at the breaker to the black wire going into it? That is your first step besides being sure you are working with the proper breaker. You will need a meter for this. Test from breaker to neutral or ground bar to see if you get 120v. If you don't then be sure the black wire is firmly seated (secured) behind the breaker screw. Until you find out if you have power at the breaker you could be spending a lot of time for nothing. Again, if no power at the breaker try swapping the black wire to another breaker that is working. BUT again, only work in the panel if you are familiar with it and know what you are doing.

We can't assume anything at this point as to where the problem may be as we can tell so far that the bathroom was not wired to code so therefore the problem may exist outside the bathroom.
 
I haven't tested any connections at the switches with a multimeter, only with a non contact voltage alert device to see if any wires were getting power. None of the switches box light up. The bathroom ceiling light seems to be were power enters from breaker. It has three 3 separate conduits of wires in there. The vanity light has 1 and the hallway light has 2 (probably because it has a switch upstairs and downstairs).

If you have an indication of the presence of voltage in that ceiling fixture, shut successive breakers of until you have no indication of voltage.

The black conductors will probably be grouped together in a single wire nut. Remove the wire nut and if the conductors are loose, twist them together and reinstall the wire nut, turn the breaker back on.

You'll need a simple VOM (volt/ohm meter) to accomplish voltage tests behind the dead front panel of the elec. service.
 
Had a similar problem at my daughter's condo. Was painting bedroom #1 and lost power to bedroom #2. Seems all power to #2 came from a stab connector on an outlet in #1. Wire had been partially cut through, likely during initial installation, and removing the outlet cover was all that was needed to finish the break. Your problem may be similar.
 
Do not rely mainly on a "contact tester" they can give you incorrect results at times.

Again, before you start anywhere else are you getting power at the breaker to the black wire going into it? That is your first step besides being sure you are working with the proper breaker. You will need a meter for this. Test from breaker to neutral or ground bar to see if you get 120v. If you don't then be sure the black wire is firmly seated (secured) behind the breaker screw. Until you find out if you have power at the breaker you could be spending a lot of time for nothing. Again, if no power at the breaker try swapping the black wire to another breaker that is working. BUT again, only work in the panel if you are familiar with it and know what you are doing.

We can't assume anything at this point as to where the problem may be as we can tell so far that the bathroom was not wired to code so therefore the problem may exist outside the bathroom.


I rechecked all the breakers and they all are reading between 122.7 to 123.3 volts at the box. My son and I spent the better part of a day checking every fixture, outlet, appliances, and switches to identify what was working or not. And what had power or not. We went one breaker at a time to identify what was on each breaker. We did have 2 120 breakers that we could not determine what was on them. Keep in mind that the lights in question could be on one or both of those breakers. Do you think that the bathroom ceiling fixture with the three sets of conduits is the point where power is coming from the breaker? Of could there be a junction box in between the breaker and that fixture?

To answer a question in a previous thread about my level of experience. I'd consider myself a novice when it comes to home electrical wiring and codes. I'm a retired aircraft mechanic now driving tractor trailers. But I'm always up for learning new things.
 
Two breakers?
You could have 2 breakers feeding, they do that to save wire, they will be feeding one cable with 2 hot wires, black and red, and the breakers should be tied together, so when one kicks off the other goes with it.
If that is the case finding the first box will be as easy as finding the box with that red wire.

Those two breakers are 15 amp?
You have found range, dryer, water tank, AC breakers.

As power is going to one unit an another and another and so on, you will not be able to tell witch is the first.

The first hint is the switches, if there is only one cable, it is a switch leg and the power is at the light.
Three cables in the light box is a good hint, could be power coming in and going out and a switch leg.
Look for that red wire first if you have a red that light box would have 4 cables.
 
Last edited:
Two breakers?
You could have 2 breakers feeding, they do that to save wire, they will be feeding one cable with 2 hot wires, black and red, and the breakers should be tied together, so when one kicks off the other goes with it.
If that is the case finding the first box will be as easy as finding the box with that red wire.

Those two breakers are 15 amp?
You have found range, dryer, water tank, AC breakers.

As power is going to one unit an another and another and so on, you will not be able to tell witch is the first.

The first hint is the switches, if there is only one cable, it is a switch leg and the power is at the light.
Three cables in the light box is a good hint, could be power coming in and going out and a switch leg.
Look for that red wire first if you have a red that light box would have 4 cables.


I found the red wire in the bathroom ceiling light box. Let me make a corrections to an earlier post. There are 4 conduits in the bathroom ceiling box, not 3. One is a 4 wire conduit and the other 3 are 3 wires. The 4 black wire are tied together with a wire nut. The 4 whites are tied together. And the 4 bare copper wire appears to be together. Though unsure about the latter because I see no wire nut connected. The red wire is going to the light fixture. And a 6 inch section of black wire is tied in with the 4 white wires at the wire nut, and that black wire then connects to the light fixture. What should be my next course of action?
 
Two breakers?
Those two breakers are 15 amp?
You have found range, dryer, water tank, AC breakers.


The two breakers in question are 15 amp. All of the major appliances are accounted for and their breakers.
 
See post #13.

The 15a breakers are probably your light circuits.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top