Breaking out power receptacles into own circuit breaker

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jvc714

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Hi There,

Whoever that worked on my house prior to me moving in put 75% of the house on a single 20A circuit breaker.

I would like to break it up so I have have multiple 15/20A circuit breakers so it does not trip so much (especially in the summer and winter with the A/C or electric heaters).

The house does not have a basement/crawl space or attic/crawl space. The outside of the house is siding and inside is textured drywall.

The old owner dropped in a second circuit from the circuit breaker box under the soffit using an MC cable. I am not sure if this is permitted or not.

I would like to do something similar but want to do it right. Should I run a conduit under the eve / soffit or will I be able to get away with running an MC cable?

Thanks in advance.
 
Older home?
How many amp's is the main panel?
What size wire was ran?
Is there an attic?
 
I would start out making a map of the whole house and all the outlets and light locations. Turn off one breaker at a time and see what is on the same breaker. Then I would pull all the outlets and see what ones are feeding another and what ones are the end of a line. I would then try and determine what outlets are feeding others and how the circuit is strung together by whatever method I could figure out, like just using logic as an example back to back outlets on two sides of a wall may feed each other or maybe they went around the room and a string. When that didn’t work I would then start opening circuits where one fed another and see what goes out.

By this point you should have an idea of how many you want on a breaker and how you want to break it up. Then I would look for the easiest of those broken up circuits to get a new wire back to the panel.

At that point hopefully the questions Joe asked will allow you to add some new breakers run some new wires (the correct size) to the most logical points in what you have now to minimize your time and cost and destruction to your home.

If you think the house was mis-wired by the previous owner as to putting too much on a circuit most likely he made other mistakes and things not compliant with code and you should correct them at the same time. Like proper use of GFCI’s etc.

Once you get your map corrected with the new wiring make sure to label everything in the panel and mark the inside of the outlet covers with the breaker that controls them and keep your drawing near the panel for a year from now when you forget what you did, or the next owner.

That’s how I would do it I’m not a pro just a homeowner like you.
 
When adding new circuit they should be designed so that one AC or one heater only is on a circuit.
Where is the panel? Is there an attic? Can you get cables from the panel up into the attic?
 
From post #1;"The house does not have a basement/crawl space or attic/crawl space."

Are the ceilings 8' or cathedral? Because a ceiling joist system allows you some measure of versatility in accessing interior spaces by using the joist bays.
 
The problem with space heaters and window AC units is trying to figure out what outlet someone might plug them into or what window. During the remod of our house we had a window unit in the one living room window for a summer the largest 120v you can buy. It did a great job of cooling the first floor and around here you don’t really need central air. So that being a good location I wired a dedicated outlet right below the window for it. Once the furniture went in she said I want the AC in the other window. I asked why and the dog got used to looking out that window over the winter. So you know who won on the AC location.

If you use a lot of high draw appliances like that, the best you can do is cut back on the number of outlets and run more circuits.
 
First I would like to thank everybody for responding.

Basically, it is a older home. there is no place to run cable above or below the house without having to gut the ceiling and drilling through all the 2x8 beams that support the roof.

I have already tried to coordinate who can use what at the same time but the way it is wired, it is impossible.

Basically, does anybody know if I am legally allowed to run an MC cable or I am required to run a PVC conduit under the eve / soffit outside to add additional circuit breakers to an break up an existing branch circuit? I already found a place that I can safely tap (inside a closet).

Thanks in advance.
 
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First I would like to thank everybody for responding.

Basically, it is a older home. there is no place to run cable above or below the house without having to gut the ceiling and drilling through all the 2x8 beams that support the roof.

I have already tried to coordinate who can use what at the same time but the way it is wired, it is impossible.

Basically, does anybody know if I am legally allowed to run an MC cable or I am required to run a PVC conduit under the eve / soffit outside to add additional circuit breakers to an break up an existing branch circuit? I already found a place that I can safely tap (inside a closet).

Thanks in advance.
That might be a code question for your area, but I think the bigger question is how many amps in the service you have, do you have spare spaces for breakers and are the breakers available.
You mentioned that some one put in 20 amp breakers, are the wires 12 gauge going to those breakers. In the breaker box the difference in wire size between 20 amp and 15 amp should be visible.
http://electrical.about.com/od/panelsdistribution/f/calculateload.htm
 
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So, where are you, because the code in 2013, may not be the code today?

Is your ceiling open beam, because how many circuits are accessible from one closet?
 
MC cable is not considered waterproof. I don't think it is permitted outside.
Can you remove the eaves and run the cable inside them? That might also allow you access into the walls to drop cable down into the outside walls and into the ceiling space to run cable in the space between the rafters. This should minimize the holes that need to be drilled.
 
...
Basically, does anybody know if I am legally allowed to run an MC cable or I am required to run a PVC conduit under the eve / soffit outside to add additional circuit breakers...

Again, you are best off finding out from your AHJ (authority having jurisdiction; local code office). What may be to code in the NEC may not be to the local office.

Also, if you end up using PVC or some other type of conduit anywhere outside be aware (in case you don't know) that you can not run Romex within the conduit if the conduit will be outside. You must use individual conductors which are rated for wet locations. Romex is only rated for dry locations (THHN), you must use wire/conductor that is rated also for THWN (W=weather).
 
You do not have to run individual conductors. You do have to run WET(not weather) rated wires or cable. There is wet rated cable.
 
I haven’t wired as many house as some of you guys or rewired, but I have never seen one that there wasn’t a way to fish some wires without doing that much repair staying inside the house. Not saying there might be a time when you have to run a wire around outside in conduit and back in but I would rather repair a few holes in the drywall before I did that. I find there is usually a place to use as a chase.
 
You do not have to run individual conductors. You do have to run WET(not weather) rated wires or cable. There is wet rated cable.

Apparently I was having a bad day when I replied here. :hide: Yes, "W" stands for wet and not weather which is what I wrote earlier in the sentence; my bad. Also, I meant that the individual conductors have to be rated as THWN where as Romex is not; yes, wet rated cable is allowed but a pain to run in conduit and to strip. My statement was misleading; sorry. Your correction is noted.
 
Nealtw: As far as load, I added everything together that I would be using and it does not come anywhere near 80% of 100A. The house has two 50 amp breakers that are tied together. I believe this assumes that I have 100A in the box available. The box has plenty of un-used circuit breakers as the house runs on 4 curcuit breakers while the the box can hold 10.

Snoonyb: Everything inside is closed up and textured except for the closets.

JoeD: The eves outside are not covered. The good news is that if I end up running the conduit to the closet, I would just have to run it down the wall as it is an outside wall and hook it up to the power outlet there. I already looked at the power outlet and if I disconnect it, everything downstream also loses power. I think I can just reconnect everything downstream with the new curcuit and just cap the current one. This would put everything downstream on a different circuit breaker. I also read that I need to run THHN inside the conduit too.

bud16415: I agree with you. At this point, I don't think I have much of a choice because I don't want to rip open the ceiling or walls as much as possible because every time I do anything to this house, I always find something wrong with the previous work and I end up spend a lot more time and money on fixing the mickey mouse work than I originally anticipated. As a result, I am trying to avoid touching anything if at all possible. As far as the aesthetics with the conduit outside, I am not terribly concerned as the old owner already ran MC cable under the eve. This would just add to it or I can replace the current MC cable with my conduit.

Basically, I am located in the unincorporated areas of Los Angeles county in California. Based on the way the old owner worked on this house, I really just want to make it safe and convenient for my family and I am not prepared to upgrade everything electric to the current code as this may end up costing me over $10k+ let alone losing space in the house from use until I am done which can be a while. I don't mind running a PVC conduit if that's the right thing to do if it is safe. If I am not remembering wrong is that if anything gets altered, I need to bring it up to code. If the county ever comes and inspects it, they will flag everything the old owner did and I will end up having it brought up to code in the time frame and expense I am not prepared for. I will eventually bring everything up to the current code but not this year or next year.

Based on all the feedback that everybody gave me, I think I will run the PVC conduit outside. It seems to be the easiest and safest for my family.

I will keep everybody posted on it.

Thanks again.
 
Could you please post a photo of the service, because you may have one of the few remaining A Base services.

Having two 50A breakers tied together means you have a 50Amp main, not 100Amp.

In other words you have 50A available on each buss bar.
 
Could you please post a photo of the service, because you may have one of the few remaining A Base services.

Having two 50A breakers tied together means you have a 50Amp main, not 100Amp.

In other words you have 50A available on each buss bar.


Snooyb: I made a mistake when I originally typed it. I mean to say I have two 100A breakers tied together. I have attached a photo with the cover off.

As you can see, there are are 8 usable breakers (main takes up 2). There is a space on the bottom for 2 more.

Only 5 of the 8 usable are turned on. The other 3 either does not connect to anything or it does not correspond to anything on the property. I would like to use the remainder to break up the load that is put on breaker 4th down on the left side. Eventually, I would like to break up the load for first one on the left side as it is shared between the bathroom and kitchen.

20161218_161643B.jpg
 
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Thanks for the clarification.

Could you step back a few feet and post another photo showing the meter and the whole service, with the cover still off, as well as a bit of the surrounding wall and the service mast.

Also, I see 9 breakers occupying 8 breaker spots, the top left is two breakers, and it appears there are both 12/3 and 14/3 circuits feed from the breakers, as well as a couple individual circuits.
 
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I have seen base molding removed and enough drywall removed to set conduit next to studs with 1x2 placed above and below the conduit to space out the molding.
 

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