What's the correct wiring for this switch/outlet?

House Repair Talk

Help Support House Repair Talk:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

farmerjohn1324

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Messages
963
Reaction score
103
The top switch controls two pendant lights that are currently not installed. The bottom switch controls 6 LED lights. I knew there was a problem because the outlet sparked whenever I plugged something in.

1118172310.jpg

1118172311.jpg

1118172317.jpg

1118172317a.jpg

1118172318a.jpg

1118172318.jpg
 
It is a bit difficult to tell what wires go where in the box.
It may have sparked because the receptacle hot screws may have been too close to the right side of the metal box. Pushing in a plug may have caused the hot terminal/wire to slightly touch the metal box. But if that were the case the breaker should have tripped with the dead short occurring. Did the breaker trip? If not there may be another issue.
 
There is too much copper exposed. The insulation on the wire should up as tight as possible to the screw connection.

I suspect that the hot just came in contact with the side of the box or the ground wire.
 
It is a bit difficult to tell what wires go where in the box.
It may have sparked because the receptacle hot screws may have been too close to the right side of the metal box. Pushing in a plug may have caused the hot terminal/wire to slightly touch the metal box. But if that were the case the breaker should have tripped with the dead short occurring. Did the breaker trip? If not there may be another issue.

Yes, the breaker tripped.
 
There is too much copper exposed. The insulation on the wire should up as tight as possible to the screw connection.

I suspect that the hot just came in contact with the side of the box or the ground wire.

There was electrical tape around both the switch and the outlet. I took it off.
 
After looking again, you can clearly see that the outlet is burned. If I replace the outlet, will it just happen again?
 
farmerjohn please look at the two pics i posted.

One picture shows it was clearly a dead short. Caused by what? Maybe the sheet rock screw sticking out too far (other picture).

You said the breaker tripped which indicates a "dead short" (at least in this case). Scorching on the receptacle without the dead short indication which I show you would make me want to believe it would be more of an "over heating" issue than a dead short.

As I had said the hot terminal/wire came in contact with the side of the metal box. Yes, there may have been electrical tape around the receptacle but MOST people when they wrap electrical tape around a switch or receptacle will wind the tape around the device and then stretch the tape until it snaps. Over time the "elastic" tendency of the tape is to transform back to its normal length thus pulling back behind the receptacle or switch and exposing the terminals/wires again. When I wrap a receptacle or switch with electrical tape I always always always pull my tape to length from the roll then cut the tape with a utility knife. Doing this does not elongate the tape from its natural length and will not over time cause it to shrink and pull it behind/around the back of the switch or receptacle.

I would also suggest that you take some of the wires and cut the extra length of exposed copper back a bit. The exposed copper of the wire should only be up to where the wire wraps around the screw. It is clear that someone used a utility knife to strip the insulation back instead of wire strippers that make a cleaner cut mark.

When you were plugging something in to this receptacle and it caused sparks it should have "dead shorted out" each time and tripped the breaker each time. You did say it tripped the breaker but it should have every time if the box was properly grounded. If when you plugged something in it sparked it is also an indication that the receptacle was not properly secured to the device box. Meaning that when you went to plug something in it shifted the receptacle enough to the right to cause a "dead short".

Again, scorching without an indication of a dead short as I circled would lead me more to believe that it was an overheat issue. The dead short that I circled will look more like a "weld" mark. This shows the difference between the dead short and an over heat. Also if it was an over heat issue the insulation close to where the bare copper is on the hot wire would be melted. The scorching was caused by the sparking of the dead short.

After looking again, you can clearly see that the outlet is burned. If I replace the outlet, will it just happen again?
From what I see and from what I explained to you above this seems to be a "dead short" issue and not an over heat issue. If you replace the receptacle and wrap it with electrical tape as I said I do mine and make sure it is secured in the box properly along with the fact that when you push it back into the box that the bare ground wire does not push between the hot terminal/wire and the electrical tape I would think there should be no further issues.

After looking again, you can clearly see that the outlet is burned. If I replace the outlet, will it just happen again?
The outlet (receptacle) is not burned, it is scorched from the arc flash of the dead short.

1118172317a.jpg

1118172318a.jpg
 
Last edited:
Separate issue, but didn't want to start a new thread...

Can I always use a half sized single pole in place of a full sized one? Is there any difference at all?
 
Separate issue, but didn't want to start a new thread...

Can I always use a half sized single pole in place of a full sized one? Is there any difference at all?

If this is a separate issue then I have no understanding yet of what you are referring to as "use a half sized single pole"- My answer would have to be "Use a single pole what ?"
 
farmerjohn please look at the two pics i posted.

One picture shows it was clearly a dead short. Caused by what? Maybe the sheet rock screw sticking out too far (other picture).

You said the breaker tripped which indicates a "dead short" (at least in this case). Scorching on the receptacle without the dead short indication which I show you would make me want to believe it would be more of an "over heating" issue than a dead short.

As I had said the hot terminal/wire came in contact with the side of the metal box. Yes, there may have been electrical tape around the receptacle but MOST people when they wrap electrical tape around a switch or receptacle will wind the tape around the device and then stretch the tape until it snaps. Over time the "elastic" tendency of the tape is to transform back to its normal length thus pulling back behind the receptacle or switch and exposing the terminals/wires again. When I wrap a receptacle or switch with electrical tape I always always always pull my tape to length from the roll then cut the tape with a utility knife. Doing this does not elongate the tape from its natural length and will not over time cause it to shrink and pull it behind/around the back of the switch or receptacle.

I would also suggest that you take some of the wires and cut the extra length of exposed copper back a bit. The exposed copper of the wire should only be up to where the wire wraps around the screw. It is clear that someone used a utility knife to strip the insulation back instead of wire strippers that make a cleaner cut mark.

When you were plugging something in to this receptacle and it caused sparks it should have "dead shorted out" each time and tripped the breaker each time. You did say it tripped the breaker but it should have every time if the box was properly grounded. If when you plugged something in it sparked it is also an indication that the receptacle was not properly secured to the device box. Meaning that when you went to plug something in it shifted the receptacle enough to the right to cause a "dead short".

Again, scorching without an indication of a dead short as I circled would lead me more to believe that it was an overheat issue. The dead short that I circled will look more like a "weld" mark. This shows the difference between the dead short and an over heat. Also if it was an over heat issue the insulation close to where the bare copper is on the hot wire would be melted. The scorching was caused by the sparking of the dead short.

From what I see and from what I explained to you above this seems to be a "dead short" issue and not an over heat issue. If you replace the receptacle and wrap it with electrical tape as I said I do mine and make sure it is secured in the box properly along with the fact that when you push it back into the box that the bare ground wire does not push between the hot terminal/wire and the electrical tape I would think there should be no further issues.


The outlet (receptacle) is not burned, it is scorched from the arc flash of the dead short.

Okay. I'm going to replace the whole thing with a plastic box and I'll cut the wires while they're out.
 
If this is a separate issue then I have no understanding yet of what you are referring to as "use a half sized single pole"- My answer would have to be "Use a single pole what ?"

Can a 1/2" single pole breaker be used interchangeably with a 1" single pole breaker?
 
Can a 1/2" single pole breaker be used interchangeably with a 1" single pole breaker?

Not necessarily.

You need to compare an existing breaker with that you would propose to insert, most important is where it plugs into the buss bar.

What you are asking is can a mini plug-in fit in a standard plug-in space.

Because you need additional circuits to power the kitchen, I would suggest a tandem plug-in, which affords you 2 circuits from the same buss bar.

However, in the case of the island you also need to be cognizant of which buss bar you are feeding from, to insure you do not inadvertently end up with 240V, instead of 2, 120V circuits in the same box.
 
Not necessarily.

You need to compare an existing breaker with that you would propose to insert, most important is where it plugs into the buss bar.

What you are asking is can a mini plug-in fit in a standard plug-in space.

Because you need additional circuits to power the kitchen, I would suggest a tandem plug-in, which affords you 2 circuits from the same buss bar.

However, in the case of the island you also need to be cognizant of which buss bar you are feeding from, to insure you do not inadvertently end up with 240V, instead of 2, 120V circuits in the same box.

This is the breaker I will be plugging in to.

Most of them are half inch.

1117171923.jpg
 

Latest posts

Back
Top